๐ฝ๐น๐ฟ๐๐ฐ๐ฝ๐ณ๐:Donald Trung
Trung Quoc Don - ๅพตๅๅฎ Ch'i Kuk-Sลn - Chล Kokutan | |
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If you are interested in seeing the articles Iโve started then go to w:nl:Gebruiker:Donald Trung/Mijn werk ๐ข, if you wish to collaborate with me and everyone else on those articles then be bold and improve them. ๐ If youโre also interested in the science of studying coins and their history then go join a local WikiProject on numismatics, if youโre from a Wiki that doesnโt have one you should feel free to create one. | |
Generally I tend to be busy so I might not be able to respond on time, I'm most likely to be at Wikimedia Commons so itโs probably best to contact me there but if youโre here from another page then you should probably contact me there as I don't like conversing outside of the concerned page. Also I prefer to talk on-wiki so don't invite me off-wiki as I am even less likely to respond in time there. If you want a picture ๐ท of anything near me then ask me on Commons. |
My editing style
How I edit Wikipedia. ๐คณ๐ป โ๐ป |
Well, I didnโt want to reveal too much of myself on my Wikipedia user-page so I'll do it here (there are also a lot less vandals here, L.O.L. ๐ ), and to those of y'all who have come here from my Wikipedia user-page, congratulations ๐ on finding my secret ๐ information hub. ๐ Anyhow, letโs get to the point I will explain how I either expand and/or create articles for Wikipedia below, and what my โwork ethosโ is, I must explain firstly that Iโm a โradicalโ inclusionist, for me Wikipedia is like โan internet within the internetโ (not unlike AOL, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Yahoo!, Etc. are with their networks), and though a lot of the internet-based services I now use, and websites I frequently browse(d) I had โdiscoveredโ through Wikipedia my mentality is that โif thereโs a place with more information than Wikipedia I should add that information to Wikipediaโ. The fact that I avoid deleting ANYTHING can be seen by the fact that I still keep the e-mail signature โ๐ป I use below in a text that I'll actually publish ๐ , in fact I havenโt permanently deleted an e-mail in more than a decade, and I avoid deleting ANY files from my computer, in fact I'm forced to go on mobile because Iโve filled up every physical- and cloud- / โ-drive possible, now I simply donโt have any space anywhere, BUT IโLL NEVER DELETE ANYTHING. And yes, that mentality also applies as to how I edit Wikipedia, I will oppose any deletion I see, even if I utterly hate the subject I would advocate for its inclusion, and not long ago with an older account my prime focus was to โsaveโ as much articles as possible by adding plenty of references, and yes Iโm extremely guilty of โWP:CITEOVERKILLโ in any given situation, anything to keep the subject notable, even if the notability has already been established. |
Disclaimer: Though I have many accounts that might even number in the many dozens (I genuinely forgot) I do not use them for sock-puppeting and with each new account I generally avoid editing articles Iโve edited with an older account unless It's to fight vandalism, and I always disclose that I was that account/IP address. I tend to make new accounts because either I โretireโ from Wikipedia ans then realise a week later that I still want to add more stuff (content + references), or I just simply forget the passwords as I don't write most of my Wiki-passwords down. ๐ |
Sent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ. |
=== How I expand articles === |
Well, as I stated above I a serial abuser of โWP:CITEOVERKILLโ and my editing-style can best be described as that of a โWikiDragonโ ๐ (something which I openly describe myself as, and have no plan of ever denying), however I avoid of adding too much details because thatโs not what ab encyclopedia is for, itโs for superficial knowledge that the interested can search ๐ for more deeper through the references, sources, and/or external links, however I must admit that I am guilty of adding โtoo much contentโ, and โinformation that is too technicalโ all the time. To me an article should be filled with references for every sentence, every word and it would be expanded as much as possible, Iโve greatly expanded many articles and one of my older accounts almost got ab article featured though I rarely stay long on one article as to me thereโs always another article ready to receive new information. |
=== How I create articles === |
The number of articles I have created is actually quite great however no honour can be attained as the number of accounts that made those is also quite great, and so is the diversity of the fields those articles are in, to me โthis accountโ is a numismatics account and I donโt plan on creating many (or even any) articles outside of that field, Iโve created articles on several languages of Wikipedia, and I have only had 1 of the articles I created nominated for deletion (as of July 10th, 2017) by another editor who seemed/seems to hate me either for no reason or because I disagreed with him in an edit war he started, after that nomination several other editors who hate(d) me preferred to โcommentโ more with none backing up the deletion, and an overwhelming majority of other editors said that the nomination was petty and named dozens of reasons to not delete the article, welcome to the world of Wikipedia where if you make enemies theyโll stalk you everywhere and try to bully you, but unfortunately thatโs just life, as someone who has been contributing to Wikipedia for over a decade (as of 2017) I can explain as to how I made sure that none of my articles got deleted. |
I work by a simple rule I like to call โthe 8 references ruleโ (yeah, โ7 ref ruleโ or โ6 source ruleโ would both sound โmore catchyโ but I simply have a thumb rule of 8), all of these 8 references should be from different sources and authors, Exempli Gratia if I take 2 (two) different articles from the same site I will count them as only โ1 (one) referenceโ, and if the same person for example โRobert โBobโ Smithโ wrote 2 (two) different articles in 2 (two) different sources I would also calculate that as merely โ1 (one) sourceโ, I also hate creating stubs, I draft articles to the point that theyโre bigger than most current articles on related subjects before publishing them but Iโve written several stubs simply because the information on the subjects is scarce, or I simply don't have the resources to attain them but still publish those articles for those that do. |
Sent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ. |
=== What I do with โbad contentโ ๐๐ป ๐ ๐ป ๐๐ป === |
=== A minor confession === |
I kind of use Wikipedia as a coin-shopping catalogue and expanded several numismatic articles because I was too lazy to go to a few dozen of individual websites or books ๐ to look for the information, however this is outside of WP:NOTCATALOGUE as the information was/is both notable and relevant in every instance, and while expanding โmy personal catalogueโ ๐ I also add plenty of historical context to each coin which make the articles into true historical pieces and not just coin catalogues, but also to that end I shall upload lots of pictures of coins so others can use Wikipedia & Wikimedia Commons as โtheir personal coin cataloguesโ too. ๐๐๐๐ ๐ |
(P.S. by the number of "Sent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ." 's one could see how often I draft something, L.O.L. ๐) |
How I pre-select the images that I(โll) uploadโฆ ๐ค
My selection process for Wikimedia Commons. |
I am fully aware that Wikimedia Commons is not like letโs say Microsoft OneDrive, Google Drive, Dropbox, Etc. and though I did refer above to me having uploaded almost every digital non-copyrighted, non-personal picture I have ever taken I must probably explain how I take pictures, or how the process works in my mind... |
Sent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ. |
Though I must confess that I kind of use Wikimedia Commons as โa back-up serviceโ which would go against NOTHOST, I tend to make sure that the content I upload genuinely falls within the scope of the site, I have thousands of pictures, and videos of my own children or my wife, Etc. that I simply wouldn't upload, nor did I ever upload a picture ๐ท of my own restaurant ๐ด. The pictures Iโve uploaded are often used on Wikipedia (even though I didn't intend it in the first place), and though Iโve used many accounts none ever got blocked for violating the rules simply because I tend to make sure that the pictures I upload will be useable. A lot of the pictures Iโve uploaded were brought to Wikipediaโs I donโt edit, in fact a lot of my pictures appear on Russian Wikipedia (which I rarely use), and Spanish Wikipedia (which I do read but donโt edit). |
As a โradical Inclusionistโ I wouldn't be opposed to others using Wikimedia Commons as a free web-host as I would see the potential of an imageโs future usage on Wikipedia by simply saying โitโs not notable, YETโ, but I personally donโt use it that way, and many languages have articles that arenโt available in other languages, so I am not 100% opposed to uploading content non-discriminatively, but generally when I take a picture ๐ท I tend to ask โis this educational?โ often before I press the button, so yeah I do make sure that my work is โwithin scopeโ (and lately I'm even more likely to exclusively make pictures for Wikimedia Commons than I am to make for myself...๐ |
=== My inclusionism on Wikipedia Vs. My inclusionism on Wikimedia Commons === |
Let me start with a story, once I came across a Wikipedia article on English Wikipedia about a little girl/young woman named โsomethingโ Vos, and it was created by an account I think was named โFeelTheFoxโ (this was years ago so I could be completely wrong about the names ๐คฅ), this was obviously a blatant self-promotional scheme, or she just wanted to brag to people how she had a Wikipedia page or something, anyhow it was nominated for deletion due to a lack of notability, and I perfectly understood that... But that didn't prevent me from spending hours looking for secondary and tertiary sources to keep the article, I found a dozen newspaper ๐ฐ articles from the political party (the Labour Party) she was a member of, I found among others her Facebook, Twitter, Etc. (which many people would add to Wikipedia, but I have no interest in adding myself) so I kept looking, eventually I had to give up she genuinely wasn't notable enough for Wikipedia... To this end I become โmore realisticโ and I wouldn't vote โkeepโ anymore, but neither would I personally want to be responsible for its deletion so I contacted refer creator and advised her to use more sources next time. |
On Wikimedia Commons I am not like that, I don't want to see copyrighted content here and generally I self-publish and encourage others to do so too, but compared to Wikipedia I am โa bit lessโ of an inclusionist, that doesnโt mean that I support the deletion of things I see that MIGHT be out of scope, the majority of the files on Commons I would personally describe as โgeneric picturesโ, I donโt see how a picture ๐ท let's say a chair would help me personally but they are a treasure on Wikipedia for articles relating to that, and so are letโs say pictures of food ๐. |
=== The questions I ask ๐ค === |
Often I look at a sight and wonder if I could add that picture to Wikipedia, or if anyone else could use it on any other website to teach someone something, if the answer is yes I am most likely to take a picture ๐ท of it, and then upload it here, however if itโs already a popular tourist attraction or in a highly dense area I might second guess it as I donโt want to upload โanother version of something that we already have hundreds or thousands of pictures ofโ, though during special events I might, as special decorations are a snapshot of that place in that moment. |
=== My... Uhhhmmm... Ehhh... โbad reasonsโ ๐๐ป๐ฟ === |
Well, as I had stated above I want to... Well,... Ehhh... โbe immortalโ and I believe that the 21st century will either be the most documented era in history, or the least documented era in history (as privacy advocates seek the destruction of all data and personal files from government archives), and because I fear the latter I simply document every millimeter of my life and publish it on some website, somewhere, to me the digital has become more important than โthe physicalโ and Iโve made sure that I share my every inner thought, every event somewhere on the internet, the same goes for the content I create in one form or another, and as I had said before I do kind of see Wikimedia Commons as my secondary back-up service, and for some things even my primary but I do make sure that Itโs always within scope, now here to the bad parts... |
Though I post every detail to a variety of websites like Facebook (literally infinite storage for pictures, and thatโs where I back up my personal pictures and videos), 9GAG, Imgur, Meme Generator, Imflip, SCP-Wiki, YouTube, Google+, Etc. and various blogs spread across the web, I mostly use Wikimedia Commons and to this end (I must confess ๐ท ) Iโve made what I would describe as โa junk accountโ, above Iโve stated that Iโve filled every possible drive, well after Iโve added something online thatโs easily accessible for me I no longer need to host it locally and can move the file to a cloud-hosting service not linked to any of my devices, prior to that I must have โmade sureโ that I can access that file independently from that host and to that end I actually succeeded, I rarely make pictures now that I do not immediately upload and the endeavours with that account were so great that uploading to Wikimedia Commons through the UploadWizard gave me โVietnam Syndromeโ or PTSD, but I must confess, and tell about it. |
Today I actually have A LOT of space on my drives again, and though I said above (๐คฅ) that this isnโt the case, it actually wasn't before that and whenever I think of my storage I think of the issues before โthe junk accountโ, well l... I created a Wikimedia Commons account after not using Wikipedia or other Wikimedia services for quite a while, and then I just suddenly decided to back up every picture I had (without faces of family members, friends, Etc. and that do not exclusively display copyrighted content), well it took me months of non-stop work ๐ข, and Wikimedia Commons ate my social, and (inter-)personal life but eventually I did do it, after recently checking back those images are all still up, and though my intentions were bad, a lot of them are actually used on Wikipedia. ๐ I even saw one of them pop-up on a news website where someone used a picture ๐ท I uploaded to Wikimedia Commons to talk about a product. Well, thatโs behind me now and I like to think that my thousands of little selfish acts improved the service... ๐ ๐ ๐ |
This is not โa junk accountโ and my uploads here I plan on directly using on numismatic Wikipedia articles. And let me now explain to how I pre-select pictures ๐ท of certain things before I begin to upload them. |
=== Understanding the users === |
Most people who go to Wikipedia will never edit, and almost none of them will even entertain the idea ๐ก of uploading pictures ๐ท to Wikimedia Commons, to that end we passionate users who like to upload things ARE VERY MUCH NEEDED, without us this site couldnโt exist, and they couldnโt read it. To this end we should always keep them in mind, and know that they would want to have an encyclopaedic article with illustrative images. My first upload to Wikimedia Commons was many years ago (with the first Wikipedia account that I had created as an adult... I think ๐ค, don't quote me on that), and it was very specifically only to illustrate something on Wikipedia, since then I just mostly uploaded images of products I own to add them to articles, it wasnโt until a long time after that I started uploading โmore genericโ images that people could use on other parts of Wikipedia that I only read but never edit. |
=== โmissing imagesโ on Wikipedia === |
Today (as of writing/drafting this) is the 11th of July, 2017 and around this time Iโve been โcollecting historyโ (like coins, banknotes, exonumia, Etc.) for a decade, and Iโve owned a machine-struck Guang Xu Tong Bao coin for also almost a decade, however there are currently no images of that milled coin anywhere here, and I already see 2 Wikipedia articles where an image of that coin would be really valuable, to this end I'll upload pictures ๐ท of it once I return home ๐ , but the fact is that even the people who do have the resources (such as myself) simply didnโt give uploading it to Wikimedia Commons a second thought, well, until now... ๐ |
=== Buildings ๐๐คโฉ === |
I love ๐ humans, I really hate A LOT of individual humans, but as a species I love ๐ us, and by extend the beautiful arts of nature we create are no exception, I love taking pictures of buildings and uploading them to Wikimedia Commons but I must first tell y'all my pre-selection process... |
Well there are many just โgenericโ pictures of buildings on Wikimedia Commons I do not plan on uploading them (of course with the aforementioned โJunk accountโ I had created being the exception, but as usual I lost the password to that one, and โit's missionโ is complete anyhow, so...), when I select a building I look for one with historical value (to this end Itโs similar to how WP:NOTABILITY works), or Iโll look for something that stands out, or I just take pictures of places of worship. Buildings during special events I also prefer to take as as I had said above โis a snapshot of that momentโ (like any other picture ๐ท, but still...) |
=== Cities, villages, town(ship)s, hamlets, streets, Etc. (human settlements) ๐ === |
I often pass by little towns, or other places that not that many tourists visit or aren't that well documented, then when I come home ๐ I check Wikimedia Commons and realise that no-one has uploaded pictures of that settlement/place yet so I'll go back the next day, and ๐ธ๐ฒใใใใใใใใใใใโฌ. In fact in my first languageโs Wikipedia there are lots of pictures of those places that I had taken because simply no one else did. If youโre reading this and you like taking pictures, I hope ๐ค๐ป that this will inspire you to do the same. |
When it comes to larger cities I do sometimes take pictures of streets, but usually go for monuments, and more memorable sights, but thinking for people in the future taking pictures TODAY of what might seem like โany other streetโ or just โa random locationโ to you could become invaluable for educational resources tomorrow. |
=== Food ๐ฝ๐ฑ === |
I have probably only uploaded a dozen (or maybe a few more) pictures of food ๐ to Wikimedia Commons, I see uploading pictures of food as something only Hipsters would do on he Facebookโs Instagram service but I did anyhow, and surprisingly several of those have already been used on Wikipedia articles so in light of that I do plan on uploading pictures of food in the future, but Iโll search ๐ Wikimedia Commons first to see if anyone else had already uploaded pictures of those meals before I would even consider taking the picture ๐ท in the first place. |
๐ค๐๐ธ๐ |
=== Phones ๐ฒ === |
I had recently uploaded (last month, June 2017) uploaded a few pictures of a Masstel telephone ๐... Those are currently (as of July 11th, 2017) the 3 sole pictures of any Masstel devices here on Wikimedia Commons. Masstel doesn't have any information on Wikipedia (as of July 11th, 2017), but the company can become notable tomorrow if it would have a best-selling product, and I have also uploaded many pictures of every mobile device that I own. |
Sent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ. |
=== Coins === |
As I had stated before I had only recently seriously started to upload pictures of coins, partially because I had the mistaken notion that the plentiful galleries of numismatic images on Wikimedia Commons was โenoughโ, my latest large batch of uploads was a collection of various Chinese zodiac โ coins issued by Somalia, though currently there isn't a โList of Commemorative coins of Somaliaโ article this might change in the future. The same applies for other coins, and I plan on adding A LOT more in the future. |
=== Others/Miscellaneous === |
There are plenty of other things I have standards for but those are too minor to name here, for me uploading images to Wikimedia Commons has practically become โa lifestyle choiceโ to the point that thatโs VERY LITTLE that I DONโT upload. โฌโคดโฌโคดโฌโคดโฌโคดโฌโคดโฌโคดโฌโคดโฌโคดโฌโคดโฌโคดโฌโคดโฌโคดโฌโคดโฌโคดโฌโคดโฌโคดโฌโคดโฌโคดโฌโคดโฌโคดโฌโฌโฌโคดโฌโคดโฌโฌโฌโฌโคดโคดโคดโฌโคดโฌโฌโฌโฌโฌโคดโคดโฌโคดโฌโคดโฌโฌโคดโคดโฌโคดโฌโคดโฌโฌโฌโคดโคดโคด This doesn't mean that I hold no standards to them, and sometimes I even โpush the systemโ just to see how far I can get away with something, but thatโs only because one simply canโt go to Commons:Villagepump and ask for permission, or ask if something's copyrighted ยฉ or not. To that end Itโs better tlโto ask for forgiveness, than to ask for permissionโ. But I do tend to make sure that the pictures I take and upload are as โfree as possibleโ. ๐ซ |
Images (of coins) I plan on uploading. ๐ธ๐ฒโฌ
Note ๐: This list I make here to remind myself to upload these images to Wikimedia Commons, I wrote this list on Wednesday July 12th, 2017 as basically โa snapshotโ of my direct plans on images for uploading, after Iโve made, and then uploaded the image I shall insert them here as a thumb ๐๐ป.
Sent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ.
Late Qing Dynasty coins ๐ฒ๐ป
ๆธ ้ขใ |
This picture ๐ท will be of various late Qing Dynasty coinage from the Guangxu, and Xuantong era. It will include both copper and silver coinages, both imperial, and provincial issues, and both cast and machine-struck / milled Chinese cash coins, as well as a โRed Cashโ from Xinjiang (East-Turkestan), I want to โartisticallyโ make this picture ๐ท to stand on top of the โQing dynasty coinageโ article replacing the standalone Xuan Tong Tong Bao coin I had already uploaded. I already own most of these coins and recently ordered some more through eBay with just a few more needing to be ordered (as of July 12th, 2017), the image must provide what can basically be summed up as โthe monetary transition from old to new in one frameโ, the picture should demonstrate how both โTraditionalโ (read: Cast) Chinese cash coins, and milled Chinese cash coins circulated together, show off the โ10 Cashโ denomination, and the โmore decimalโ โ1 Centโ (ยข1) denominations looking identical showing that the transition from not only using โCashโ as a coin, but also as a whole currency unit would disappear in favour of more European denominations with or without the Wuchang Uprising, ABD/and Xinhai revolution. The โRed Cashโ should show that Xinjiang (East-Turkestan) still relied on the Dzungar Pul coins many years (centuries even) after the Dzungar (Oirat) Khanate had fallen to the Manchuโs, while the Imperial copper coin should show the contrast between the provinces and that while some provinces and regions wholeheartedly stuck to โthe traditional cash systemโ that the Cantonese had already accepted โthe currency of the French Revolutionโ, meanwhile a 4th copper coin with a Guang Xu Yuan Bao inscription and the Yin & Yang symbol(s) โฏ should show that China still lived within their traditional culture while embracing modern technology. The silver coins are Xuan Tong Yuan Bao I bought a decade ago from eBay by winning 2 auctions 20 (twenty) minutes apart by outbidding the rest by bidding in the last 5 seconds ,๐ถ๐๐๐๐๐๐บ๐น๐บ๐น๐ ๐ค๐๐ ๐ค๐๐๐๐๐ yeah Iโm mean. One of them will display the โXuan Tong Yuan Baoโ side while the other would show off it's dragon ๐ฒ with the inscription of โ1 Mace, and 4,4 Candareensโ visible to the readers/viewers to understand how chaotic the system truly was. The โDragon ๐ฒ Dollar ๐ตโ my favourite non-cash โmoney ๐ด coinโ (as I own a lot of tokens, and โothersโ (exonumia)) will show off that the Qing was already close a standard when they fell. This one image I hope will not only be extremely informative without even having to read the article underneath, but might (hopefully ๐ค๐ป ) inspire a new generation of Qing coin collectors with beautiful dragons ๐ฒ , Yin & Yang โฏ symbols, and amazing calligraphy. |
Sent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ. |
2500 years of cast Chinese coinage ๐ด
The monetary history of China in one frame. |
This picture ๐ท will be that of Chinese coins from an Yi Hua coin (also the oldest coin in my collection) being several centuries before Jesus Christ โ , all the way up to the Manchu Qing Dynasty ๐ฒ๐ป. I will upload 2 variants of this picture ๐ท, one will only have coins from the โChineseโ dynasties (well, the Yuan is Mongol, and the Qing is Manchu, the Kingdom of Yan predates any actual Chinese dynasty as โthe Zhou Dynastyโ wasn't a real country, not unlike the Japanese Emperors prior to the Meiji Revolution), as well as from the Republic of China (Taiwan) though Iโm not absolutely certain if Iโll be able to get that coin as Itโs quite expensive, ABD/and rare. Though Iโve already got the majority of these coins in my collections I'm still missing the one from the Mongol Empire, and one from the Republican era. |
Sent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ. |
โThe 2nd (second) versionโ of this images contains all of the above coins plus the โderived currenciesโ of Japan (Tokugawa Shogunate), Korea (Joseon Dynasty), ABD/and Viet Nam (French Indo-china) below them, I think that both can beautifully illustrate the monetary history of cash coins in China but Iโm not sure if adding non-Chinese coins will take away from, or add to the viewerโs experience so Iโll upload 2 versions โ๐ป๐คต๐ป. |
Iโm always juggling with ideas in my mind, ๐คน๐ป but as Itโs the internet I say LET'S DO โEM ALL... ๐๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป |
Collecting cash coins is a real sport. ๐ฉ๐ป๐ง๐ป๐ถ๐ป๐ต๐ป๐ฑ๐ป๐ด๐ป๐ฆ๐ป๐จ๐ป๐ฎ๐ป๐ฒ๐ป๐ณ๐ป๐ท๐ป๐ต๐ป๐๐ป๐ธ๐ป ๐คด๐ป๐ ๐ป ๐คถ๐ป๐ผ๐ป๐ฐ๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป ๐คต๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป ๐คฆ๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป ๐คท๐ป๐ ๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป ๐คน๐ป๐ช๐ป๐ญ๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป๐ซ๐ป๐ฌ๐ป๐ถ๐ป๐๐ป๐ฏ๐ป๐๐ป๐ด๐ป๐บ๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ปโท๐ป ๐คฐ๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ปโน๐ป๐๐ป๐ด๐ป๐ต๐ป ๐คพ๐ป๐คฝ๐ป๐คผ๐ป๐คธ๐ป๐ฃ๐ป๐๐ปโ๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป ๐ค๐ปโ๐ป๐๐ป ๐ค๐ป๐ค๐ป๐๐ปโ๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป ๐ค๐ปโ๐ป๐๐ป ๐ค๐ป๐ค๐ป๐ค๐ปโ๐ป๐ ๐ป ๐คณ๐ป YEAH, I was just looking for an excuse to use all of these at least once somewhere... Anyhow as Iโm still missing 2 (two) of these cash coins I wonโt be able to make the picture ๐ท from this paragraph any time soon. ๐ค๐ฐ๐จ๐ท๐ต |
a Jurchen Jin Dynasty coin ๐ด
Jurchen coinage. |
Of all the Chinese coinage articles Iโve written on Wikipedia I had plenty of resources to add illustrative images, however I must name TWO (2) notable exceptions to this rule, a cash coin written in Tangut script, and a Jurchen Jin Dynasty coin (ALSO THE ONLY โCHINESEโ DYNASTY WITHOUT IT'S OWN CATEGORY, ๐ while I do plan on making that category right ๐๐ป before Iโll upload that picture ๐ท /those pictures, I'm surprised that the purely, 100% nomicadic Liao Dynasty, and Western Xia Dynasty that people literally forgot ever existed ๐โ ๐๐ป have their own category full of images, while the Jurchens donโt), the worst part of this is that Jurchen coins arenโt even either that rare or expensive unlike the aforementioned coins, and though the Tangut coin is way above my budget the rest of the Western Xia coins arenโt. |
Itโs like an emoji rain โ. |
๐๐๐ ๐คฃโบ๐โน๐ญ๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐ค๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ค๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ค๐๐๐ถ๐๐๐ฃ๐ฅ๐ฎ ๐ค๐ฏ๐ฉ๐ซ๐ช๐ด๐๐๐๐๐ฒ๐๐๐๐๐ฆ๐ข๐ง๐ฌ๐จ๐ฑ๐๐ฐ๐ท ๐ค๐คง๐ค๐ต ๐คข๐คค๐ณ ๐คฅ๐ค๐ ๐ค ๐คก๐ก๐ฟ๐น๐น๐บ๐โ ๐ฝ๐พ ๐ค๐บ๐น๐ป๐ผ๐ผ๐ฝ๐๐ฟ๐พ๐ฑโ๐ค๐ฑโ๐ป๐ฑโ๐๐ฑโ๐๐ฑโ๐๐ฑโ๐๐๐๐๐ต๐ถ๐บ๐ฑ ๐ฆ๐ฏ ๐ฆ๐ฎ๐ท๐ญ๐น๐ฐ๐ป๐จ๐ผ๐ธ ๐ฆ๐๐ฒ๐ฝ๐ฉ ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ช๐ซ๐๐๐๐ฟ๐ฟ ๐ฆ๐๐๐ข๐ข๐๐ ๐ฆ๐ฌ ๐ฆ๐ณ๐๐๐ ๐ฆ๐ก๐ ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ ๐ฆ ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐๐ค๐ฃ๐ฅ๐ง๐ฆ๐ ๐ฆ๐๐๐ ๐ฆ๐๐ ๐ฆ๐ท๐๐ ๐ฆ๐ท๐ธ๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ฃ๐ค๐ฅ๐ฃ Yeah, I just literally (and randomly) insert these here so I don't go editing Wikipedia and think ๐ค โhmmm, which Emoji havenโt I used yet AT LEAST ONCE?โ ๐๐๐โจ๐๐๐๐ ๐ท๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ซ๐๐๐๐ซ๐ ๐ก๐ข๐ช๐จ๐ผ๐ฆ๐ญ๐ฐ๐๐๐ถ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ก๐ ๐๐๐ข๐โ๐๐๐๐๐ฉ๐๐โฝโพ๐ฑ๐๐๐๐๐ณโณ ๐คบโธ๐ฃ๐ฝ๐ถ๐๐๐๐ฟ๐๐ธ๐พ๐ฏ ๐ฅ๐ฅ๐ฅ๐ ๐ฅ๐๐ฒ๐ฎ๐ด๐ด๐โ ๐โฃโฅโฆ๐๐ฃ๐ข๐๐๐๐ผ๐ต๐ถ๐๐๐ค๐๐ง๐ฏ ๐ฅ๐ธ๐น๐บ๐๐๐๐ป๐๐๐จ๐ง๐ โ๐ฉโ๐ข๐ฌ๐โ๐ฟ๐โ๐ญ๐ก๐น๐ก๐ฃ๐ก๐น๐ก๐ฃ๐ซ๐ชโโ๐๐ ๐๐ณ๐ฒ๐ฑ๐ฌโฐโฑ๐ฟ๐ป๐๐๐ฎ๐จโจ๐ฑ๐ฟ๐พ๐ฝ๐ฒ๐๐ฅ๐ฌ๐ฝ๐ธ๐ท๐บ๐ก๐ผ๐๐๐ฎ๐ฆ๐ก๐ฏ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ฐ๐๐ท๐ฐ๐ต๐ด๐ณ๐ธ๐ท๐ถ๐งโ๐ง๐จ๐ฆ๐ฅ๐ฉ๐ซ๐ช๐ฌ๐ญโโ๐ณ๐ฎ๐๐๐๐๐๐ผ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐โโโณโฐโฐโ๐ฐโฒโฑ ALRIGHT, PARAFGRA. ๐ ๐ |
various Nguyแป n Dynasty coins together. ๐ด๐ณ๐ด
้ฎ้ขใ |
Iโm from Viet Nam, Iโve been collecting Vietnamese cash coins for a very long time, and uploaded some images of my Vietnamese cash coins to Wikimedia Commons the moment I found out that there were almost none. ๐ฐ๐ฑ๐ฐ |
Sent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ. |
So what more now? Well, a coin of all (common) Nguyแป n Dynasty cash coins together. This would go great on the Vietnamese language Wikipedia page โNguyแป n Dynasty coinageโ, donโt worry with all the info Iโm putting be it might seem as if Iโm writing โa blog postโ, or โan essayโ but if I would say something personal I would write about my childhood fear of giant disembodied human heads in hallways, or that I had the recurring fear of being alone in my room, opening my door and seeing a giant human head with nowhere to run, all because I saw an image of a statue head transforming into a giant head in some gaming magazine while I was 8 or so, but back to the coins, though I'm a restaurant owner who makes quite a bit of money ๐ด most of it goes to my expensive wife and kids so very little stays for โmy hobbies ๐โ, so Iโm forced to only buy coins and banknotes within my budget, I donโt see myself buying a Phuc Kien Thong Bao even though the educational value of such an image for Wikimedia Commons would be high, I simply canโt afford one, furthermore I travel ๐ข a lot to Viet Nam (Iโm currently there as of writing this), and visit Hanoi, Hai Phong, and Hai Duong all the time for both family ๐ช๐ป and friends, sometimes I buy a bunch of old Vietnamese coins but Iโve placed most of those in holders and I really donโt think that photographs of those would look any good on Wikimedia Commons so I simply donโt take them, however with new coins I shall do this. As I said travel here are all travel ๐ข based Emojiโs... ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ฒ๐ด๐ต๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ก๐ ๐โ๐ฉ๐ซ๐ฌ๐ฐ๐๐๐บโต๐คโด๐โ๐ข๐ณ๐ฅโฝ๐จ๐ฅ๐ฆ๐ณ๐ณโ๐๐๐ง๐ด๐ฉ๐๐โฐ๐๐บ๐๐๐ป๐ค๐๐๐๐ฃ๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐กโช๐๐๐ฃ๐ขโฉ๐๐ค๐ฅ๐ฆ๐จ๐ฌ๐ซ๐ฉ๐ฉ๐ญ๐ฏ๐ฐ๐๐พ๐๐๐ผ๐โฒโบ๐๐๐ ๐๐๐โจ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ฝ๐ฟ๐โโ โ๐ค๐ฅ๐ฉ๐จ๐ง๐ฆ๐ช๐ซ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐โ๐๐๐๐โญ๐๐ ๐๐ฌ๐กโ๐๐โโโโโกโฑโ๐ง๐ Well, that was that, still one more โbatchโ to go. Anyhow regarding those Nguyแป n coins I still think that vital information regarding as to how they circulated alongside โ(more) modern currency/currenciesโ is a question I have yet to find the answer to. My lack of budget also affects my Wikipedia editing, I can't afford much books ๐, and if an article is behind a pay wall I simply canโt reference it, if I believe that Itโs valuable I might refer to it in the Talk Page, however with coins and Wikimedia Commons I simply can only add what I either have or ask others permission to take pictures of their coins. Thankfully Nguyแป n Dynasty coins arenโt expensive with the notable exception of Tu Duc Bao Sao coins which I really canโt afford, or the bigger Minh Mang coins. |
Minh Mang zinc & copper coins
Minh Mang Thong Bao. |
I had already uploaded a photograph of a pair zinc and copper Gia Long Thong Bao coins, but as those coins are less common than Minh Mang Thong Bao coins so I have not inserted the Gia Long Thong Bao coins into the โVietnamese Cashโ article on Wikipedia as I had hoped I would. So I will wait until I get back home ๐ to then upload good quality images of Minh Mang Thong Bao coins to use on Wikipedia, so far the images Iโve seen arenโt up to (my) standard(s), and honestly I fail to understand why a coin that only costs โฌ 0,50 (and may even be gratis in many coin dealer shops here in Hanoi, wellโฆ as of July 13th, 2017 the prices may rise or decline in the future) is somehow so scarce here on Wikimedia Commons, do yโall know whatโs even worse? |
Machine-struck Cash ๐ฐ coins.
Milled Guang Xu Tong Bao coins. |
Independent from the above is a standalone image of machine-struck Guang Xu Tong Bao cash coin. |
Sent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ. |
Now let me explain why this one disturbs me the most, itโs very simple, these coins have been referred to dozens of times on English Wikipedia alone, and Iโve seen it countless of times on (Mandarin) Chinese Wikipedia, so why isnโt there a picture ๐ท of this coin, yet? Well, now letโs see how much it costs on eBay. . Hmmm ๐คoften only โฌ 2,- with the price never exceeding โฌ 20,- so not only is this coin VERY easy to find, it's representation here on Wikimedia Commons would serve a lot of Wikipedia Articles in dozens of languages, then why hasnโt anyone uploaded ANY picture ๐ท of it here? ๐ค๐ค๐ค Well, I donโt know the answer to that question, but I do know the answer to that fact... Iโll upload that picture ๐ท. Now It's time to โfinish off my Emoji Quest on Wikimediaโ and finally use the โleft ๐๐ป Emojiโ (technically on the right ๐๐ป)... โค๐๐๐โฃ๐๐ค๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ค๐ฅ๐ข๐๐ฆ๐จ๐ซ๐ณโชโโฎโ๐โธโก๐ฏ๐โฆโฏ๐โโโโโโโโโโโโ๐ณโ๐โ๐นโขโฃ๐ถ๐ท๐บ๐ธ๐โด๐๐๐ฎ๐ดใใ๐๐ต๐ฒ๐ผ๐ ฐ๐ พ๐๐๐ ฑ๐โ๐๐๐๐ซโญโ๐๐ญ๐ท๐ฏ๐ต๐๐ฑ๐ณโโโโ๐ ๐ฏโโผ๐๐ฑโใฝโป๐ฐโ ๐ธโณโ๐น๐ฏโโ ๐ ๐๐โฟ๐โ๐๐๐ โฟโฟ๐ ๐๐๐พ๐ ฟ๐ฐ๐น๐บ๐ป๐ฎ๐ถ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ขโถโธโฏโฎโญโบโนโฉโช๐๐๐ฝ๐ผโ๐โซโฌโโกโโฌโฌโฌ โโโโโ๐โชโฉ๐คโนโคตโคด๐ก๐ ๐ฃ๐โ๐๐๐๐๐โฐใฐ๐โ๐ฒ๐ฑโยฉโโโยฎโข๐โช๐ธ๐ต๐ดโซ๐น๐ถ๐ท๐บโฌโฌโฝโพ๐ปโผโปโช๐ญ๐ณ๐ฒโซ๐ฏ๐ฌ๐จ๐โ๐จ Well, there were some CHINESE characters among that, or am I running out of TIME... ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ฃ๐ข๐ก๐ ๐ค๐ฅ๐ฆ๐ง But in all seriousness the illustrative value of an actual Chinese macjine-struck coin would exceed that of only referencing it and never showing it to any of the readers. Wikipedia id about the readers and they should be able to get what one would expect from an ncyclop, without images an encyclopedia is just โanother textbookโ, wow ๐ฒ, all of these emojis s really crashing my client... ๐ ๐ค๐๐ |
Something I do like about uploading my own images here to Wikimedia Commons is that I donโt have to follow Wikipediaโs rules, particularly WP:COMMONNAME which has probably got to be one of the worst policies ever created, I prefer using Hanyu Pinyin over Wade-Giles, I prefer to use diacritical marks over โbland scriptโ, and first and foremost I really, really, really love ๐ Traditional Chinese characters/Kyuujitai, and I absolutely loathe to use Simplified Chinese characters and/or Shinjitai. The reason for that is very simple, I can easily read to Traditional Chinese characters no matter if the language is Korean, Japanese, or Vietnamese, but with Simplified Chinese characters and/or Shinjitai this becomes more difficult, while editing Wikipedia I sometimes refer to adding Traditional Chinese characters/Kyuujitai as โCuring cancer โโ which often isn't received well by other editors, a handy thing about them on historical pages is that they do follow the inscriptions, the same can't be said about either Simplified Chinese characters and/or Shinjitai, on Japanese pages I just add extra Kyuujitai because Shinjitai actually is the official standard, but with Chinese pages both are acceptable, I never delete Simplified Chinese characters and/or Shinjitai simply because the majority of the WP:READERS can (often exclusively) understand them, so I often end up creating templates that use both sets of characters. As A LOT of sources only use Simplified Chinese characters and/or Shinjitai I tend to copy them from the original + (PLUS) insert the โnewโ old characters just for brevityโs sake. While uploading these images to Wikimedia Commons I shall try to exclusively use Traditional Chinese Characters/Kyuujitai, but if needed I might add one (1) or three (3) extra sets of the reformed characters... ๐ค |
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Thanh Thai Thong Bao โฑ
Thanh Thai 10 "cash" coins. |
To me the Thanh Thai period of French Indo-China was when they had the beautiful coinage, ABD/and I'm genuinely surprised that no-one has uploaded any Thanh Thai Thong Bao coins yet, thankfully despite my wallet being this: โฐ, I thankfully own a few of these, and Iโll upload a few pictures ๐ท of them when I get back home ๐ . To that end unfortunately I canโt think of any way to directly use it on English Wikipedia, but I might insert it on Vietnamese Wikipedia's article โNguyแป n Dynasty coinageโ. ๐ |
Thanh Thai cast & milled coins together. ๐๐ฐ๐ธ
Turn-of-the-century French Indo-Chinese coinage. |
My favourite coins are actually machine-struck cash coins, especially those that contain both Latin & Chinese scripts together with Arabic numerals/numbers, though there are already some good pictures of those here on Wikimedia Commons, I most unfortunately have not seen one of those together, or together with cast coinage. Thanh Thaiโs coins fill this out the best, also later I'll maybe add some same inscriptions in both cast and milled together. ๐ |
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A Guฤng Xรน Zhรฒng Bวo (ๅ ็ท้ๅฏถ) coin. ๐ฒ๐ป
This section was added on July 20th, 2017.
Guฤng Xรน Zhรฒng Bวo (ๅ ็ท้ๅฏถ) |
Now this coin would be an interesting addition, and very much of note ๐ , this coin marks the duality of late Qing Dynasty coinage, while 10 wรฉn machine-struck coins were becoming the rule, this was โan old-school ๐ซโ large denomination Guฤng Xรน coin that still circulated. As some provinces (like Guangdong, ABD/and Jiangnan) had sworn by the more modern Guฤng Xรน Yuรกn Bวo coins, Guฤng Xรน Zhรฒng Bวo coins would continue to be produced in other provinces where the traditional casting methods were much preferred. I would immediately add this coin to the Wikitable in the โQing Dynasty coinageโ article, but the uses of this image, and the educational as well as historical value would be beyond merely illustrating that the inscription exists/existed. This was also the last cast โlarge cashโ ever made, and no Zhรฒng Bวo coins were subsequently produced. Of note ๐ would also be its size Zhรฒng Bวo means โheavy currencyโ, and these coins were easily bigger than 3 cm. ๐๐๐ |
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A Mรญn-Guรณ Tลng-Bวo (ๆฐๅ้ๅฏถ) ๐
This section was added on July 20th, 2017.
Mรญn-Guรณ Tลng-Bวo (ๆฐๅ้ๅฏถ) ๐ |
Now with great shame I must inform the Wikipedia Community (thatโs YOU reading this... Unless you literally only frequent Wikimedia Commons, then you just do you) that I have known about the existence of this coin for over a decade and saw that the โCash (Chinese coin)โ article had listed the machine-struck coins of the Qing Dynasty as โthe last Chinese cash coins ever madeโ, this however is untrue, no source I could find ever claimed this but it was in the article nonetheless, now it was only VERY recently that I had corrected this with the โcash coins in early Republican Chinaโ section, but now I will also need an image to back this claim up, now a โbad ๐ ๐ป qualityโ 10 wรฉn Mรญn-Guรณ Tลng-Bวo coin is already worth โฌ 60,- (minus shipping), you can find these for as high as โฌ 400,- depending on the readability of the characters, but the 1 wรฉn version is both way more common, and waaaaaayyyyyyy cheaper despite being lesser known. In the end all I need this picture ๐ท for is illustration. |
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Banknotes. ๐ด๐ต๐ถ๐ท
The story of me collecting paper money ๐ด recalls probably my earliest memory, when I was 4 (four) years old I was fascinated by the ฦ 10,- banknote, its colours seemed wondrous in my young eyes ๐, so one day I asked my father if he could give me ฦ 10,- so he went to his โoffice ๐ข roomโ upstairs, and then printed out a copy of that banknote, then I told him that I only wanted it for the beautiful colours, so he gave me some colouring pens and said โthen colour it inโ, so I did. I still have that print to this day. A decade later in another house ๐ I was cleaning the attic when suddenly I found this big Brown folder ๐ with plastic sheets inside, I opened it up and it was filled with banknotes from all over the world, though Iโve been collecting coins since I was 5 years old (especially the โ2-headedโ Juliana & Beatrix coins, or the โFootball โฝ ฦ 5,- coins), I did so sporadically and only took out of circulation what I got in the stores (once even preferring a โtwo-headedโ Guilder over a pack of Pokรฉmon cards ๐), but that moment impressed something on me, I asked my mother and my father if I could have their banknotes and they said โyesโ, Iโve been a money ๐ด collector ever since.
The banknotes Iโll upload here to Wikimedia Commons will be judged more harshly, I shall first check if not a good quality picture ๐ท exists of that banknote here, then Iโll make sure that it doesn't violate any copyright ยฉ claims, and then Iโll upload them. ๐ค
French Indo-Chinese Banknotes. ๐ง๐ธ
l'Indo-Chine Franรงaise. |
I plan on uploading every French Indo-Chinese banknote currently not on Wikimedia Commons that I own, I'm not sure why Sema (Pyvanet) stopped uploading ๐ค them, but Iโll (basically) continue where he left off, the image Iโll place here will be of my favorite French Indo-Chinese Piastre banknote. |
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Netherlands Indies. ๐
Nederlandsch Indiรซ. |
There is a very, very beautiful Dutch Indian โcoin-noteโ (basically a silver ๐ฅ certificate ๐) with the image of a 1 Guilder (ฦ 1,-) on it, but unfortunately no-one has uploaded an image of it to Wikimedia Commons, Iโll have to enquire first if Dutch Indian banknotes fall under Dutch copyright law or Indonesian copyright law before Iโll upload. |
Other
Miscellaneous paper currencies. |
I will have to get more informed of each of the individual copyright ยฉ laws of each individual (historical, or current) country, so for now I donโt have that much plans on uploading that many banknotes, but I will probably upload a few dozen coin pictures within a Nick of time. ๐ ๐ท |
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Explaining my reasoning behind my Wikipedian expansions and how it relates to my โmissionโ here on Wikimedia Commons
Explaining why, and how I drafted , then published the articles โRyuukyuuan monโ, โTenpou Tsuuhouโ, โYuan dynasty coinageโ, Southern Song dynasty coinageโ, โJurchen Jin dynasty coinageโ, โLiao dynasty coinageโ, โWestern Xia dynasty coinageโ, โNagasaki trade coinsโ, and the โQing dynasty coinageโ. |
Well, the story starts not on Wikipedia but elsewhere, specifically in my browser favourites โญ on Microsoft Edge, I had already prepared a list of numismatic websites in a folder ๐ dubbed โNumismaticaโ, I had originally planned to wait until I would buy a new (โless crashy, less buggyโ) laptop ๐ป, but for now my Cell.-phone suffices and itโs better to add content today than to wait for tomorrow (with things like โlinkrotโ and all, so if youโre planning on contributing to Wikipedia DO IT NOW. The reason why my laptop ๐ป is so horrendous is simply because I NEVER DELETE ANYTHING, ABSOLUTELY NEVER, not a single e-mail ๐ง, picture ๐ท, draft (even if I canโt send it), or anything, in real life I'm an obsessive, compulsive hoarder and that translates into my digital life as well, to this end the hundreds of application programmes I had installed ruined my ability to use my laptop ๐ป, and I can't force myself to use โfactory ๐ญ resetโ because thatโs simply against my nature, now welcome to me editing on my cell.-phone ๐, where do I begin? Well, letโs start chronologically with the first article I had created with this account, the โRyukyuan monโ. In my favourites thereโs a link called the Ryuukyuuan coins by Dr. Luke Roberts from the University of California at Santa Barbara. But let's first explore how I got here before we get to the article creation bit. |
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Now I write these things here for what one might find a ratherโฆ ehhhโฆ โstupidโ reason, if Iโd ever become a person that would fit English Wikipediaโs WP:NOTABILITY that I donโt have to explain my life based on (rather vague) memories in interviews, I could then always just point at a computer ๐ป and say โmy entire life, my every thought is there, feel free to look for itโ, but thatโs besides the point, I donโt write about my personal life here, only about my โWikiLifeโ, and what I do, how I do it, why I do it, and what obstacles I (had) face(d) and hopefully let the one (1) or two (2) people that will ever read this learn ๐ซ to make themselves into better users/editors while at it, I donโt know, just an idea ๐ก. |
Sent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ. Now let me first explain my prior experiences on Wikipedia before entering the world ๐บ of Numismatic articles below. ๐ซโฌ๐ซ |
I had already greatly contributed to Wikipedia for years, but in a completely different field, most of my other contributions were in the field of information computer technology, specifically the technology developed by Microsoft. Well though I did edit there as an I.P. for years I wasn't that serious about adding content until one day I had stumbled upon a user from India whose I.P. address changed every 2 days and did literally nothing but delete Microsoft-, and Nokia-related content often with only one word justifications like โredundantโ, โconciseโ, and โestheticalโ never really adding any content, always just deleting things en masse, now any sane Wikipedian reading this (though I don't expect anyone other than bots to actually read this) would probably say โwhy didn't anyone revert him or her?โ good question, but I have no answer, though I would have some edits reverted based on literally no justification despite doing so on consensus regarding to mergers or the moving of content forcing me to challenge them on talk pages taking sometimes hours or days what SHOULD only take 5 (five) minutes this Indian I.P. could simply mass-delete content and literally NEVER even receive a warning for it, but editing on Wikipedia teaches you to cope with double standards, so I took it upon myself to start reverting this troll and I had left around the same message on his/her 40+ I.P. addresses, though itโs highly unlikely that they ever saw any of those messages as they would only receive the same I.P. maybe once in every 2 years, the article was reduced from around 60k to a mere 4k (yeah, that person just literally got away with mass deletion unchallenged before me), but it wasn't until there was a discussion and edit war in the talk page of a(n) (kind of) unrelated Microsoft article that I created a Wikipedia-account I'll use for a long time, at first my edits mostly concentrated on โhuntingโ that troll down, finding references, and sources, and then adding more content to Microsoft articles, so I made a very looooooooooooong list of Microsoft articles that needed expansion and I made it my โmissionโ to make sure that any useable source I could find had their information added to these articles, this was a process that took several years but itโs completed now, and if you had fun ๐ reading full detailed Microsoft articles with lots of sources chances are that you can have me to thank for. Eventually some articles I had created, and/or greatly expanded grew โtoo largeโ (WP:SIZERULE) and I was forced to split (WP:SPLIT) them, this I had little issue with as no information got deleted, articles that were previously unsourced or relied exclusively on WP:PRIMARY were now filled with dozens of reliable secondary & tertiary sources, and I had effectively โtamed the trollโ often finding their messages on my talk page with requests to ADD content, though there was (and most unfortunately still is) a clique of bullies on the Microsoft articles who co-ordinate in real life to have several editors attack users they dislike with reversions, and though this clique has been accused of WP:OWN several times and reported countless of times by various users for some reason administrators just let them do what they do and reporting them might even get you warned for โwhiningโ, and like in real life the bullies get away with their non-sense, but they arenโt โdeletionistsโ so I can only hate them so far, though I am not exactly a fan of their behaviours and for some reason they care more about the style of the articles there is a completely different clique on those same articles who envoke WP:NOTCHANGELOG in irrelevant circumstances in order to delete content they dislike because they probably never read further than the title of that policy, however they prefer to stick to โcopyright ยฉ paranoiaโ as their means of attack I had spent days finding references for a changelog that was removed solely because it relied only on Microsoft then it was later deleted purely because it used โsimilar wordsโ now users are encouraged to paraphrase when adding content to avoid copyright claims and I did that, but their reasoning was โthe source says USB, you said USB therefore you're infringing on their copyright ยฉโ (this was the Xbox One ๐ฎ chabgelog), I remember my last โbig projectโ on Microsoft articles being adding as many secondary and primary references to โWindows 10 version historyโ as I can find, I probably single-handedly โsavedโ that article from deletion and to finish off this paragraph I will explain how adding content for technology articles is very, VERY different than adding content for numismatic articles with online references, first (1st) of all whenever someone at Microsoft, Alphabet (formerly Google), Apple, I.B.M., or Verizon even sneezes thousands of outlets report it within a minute, if you want to contribute to Microsoft article on the day something happens to that product/service thousands of outlets names โWin[this]โ, โMS[that]โ, โNokia[whatever]โ, โWP[randomname]โ, Etc. All have articles detailing everything about that, and WP:NOTABILITY is literally never an issue, neither is WP:NOTCHANGELOG only the laziness of editors with dozens jumping to the scene immediately adding content but only listing Microsoft, and then me coming there with my WP:CITEOVERKILL (something I kind of take with pride ๐ ) making sure that it lives up to Wikipediaโs standards. One might wonder, โif you liked doing it so much, then why did you stop doing it?โ well it was hardly my own choice, after installing Microsoft Windows 10 on my laptop it became so slow ans buggy ๐ that editing Wikipedia became a nightmare, on Microsoft Windows 8.1 (Blue) I could easily add 5 references ans write whole paragraphs in 5 minutes, but after my computer ๐ป โupgradedโ to Microsoft Windows 10 ot would take at least 2 hours to add a single reference due to the constant crashing, reloading mid-editing, and other bugs, editing now on a Microsoft Lumia 950 XL those same bugs plague me forcing me to even write this as an e-mail draft and saving it periodically (sometimes Microsoft Outlook just randomly crashes, reboots my cell.-phone, and deletes anything I had added to a draft causing me to sometimes take โWikibreaksโ out of anger), but despite that I still kept adding to those articles untl I had noticed that plenty of other editors started โCopying meโ and made sure that WP:PRIMARY sources werenโt the only ones added, essentially โmy missionโ there was completed, just as I started hating Microsoft (yes, and ironoically it was also Microsoft that prevented me from making sure good neutral content was written about them). |
Sent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ. |
Disclaimer: In the above I describe โa Clique of bulliesโ which I do so not because of some bad editing style but specifically because they resort to personal insults when they interact with other editors in the talk pages, and/or when they revert edits, also this is not a personal attack on them I have (in vain) tried pointing WP:CIVIL out to them (as have many others) but if you post anything to them they will immediately call upon their friends to call you โa talk page stalkerโ and other ad hominem insults rather than address the issues, and as Iโve said before reporting them didn't seem to work for me or others, though in general I have very little against their overall editing style and the only reason I cannot respect them is because of their arrogance and personal insults, they basically insulted my first โmade-For-editingโ account wherever I went, but the reason I stopped using that account was very simple, I lost my password ๐ , meanwhile there was another user who DID have a bad editing style that basically consisted of reverting a user, then re-inserting THAT EXACT SAME CONTENT (and occasionally with a different source, sometimes because he didn't like the name because it sounded โtoo bloggyโ in his ears, welcome to the world ๐บ tech-Wikipedia, also this user edits other tech articles from Android, ABD/and iO.S. as well.), this person isn't a member of that clique and clashes with them too, the reason I call them โa cliqueโ is because they openly conspire together to make sure none of them ever break the 3 revert rule, this is not an insult towards them but simply pointing out why I use the words I use, I do think that they (probably) act in WP:GOODFAITH and that they believe that theyโre improving Wikipedia but it's just that I dislike it when they insult people (not just me, people in general because I believe in civility). In retrospect I could've probably written this as a part of some โgoodbye letterโ on the second account I had created for editing as I didn't even give that one a User-page. ๐ค Anyhow the โDeletionist cliqueโ probably think that removing all, and any changelog they can find will โsaveโ Wikipedia from future lawsuits, even if they were reworded up to standards, and I do think too that they genuinely believe that they're helping Wikipedia with their actions. |
Note ๐: After I had created a second account solely for uploading a few images of products I noticed that those same people stopped insulting me, so that account wasn't a WP:SOCKPUPPET in any way, I just genuinely thought that โmy work was overโ but I just wanted to upgrade the last few โstubโ articles I could find, after that I stopped editing there because I felt like I wasn't contributing but โracingโ other editors to see โwho could add content firstโ and all of the issues I first saw had been resolved anyhow. |
Sent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ. |
2nd disclaimer: I never used those accounts to WP:SOCKPUPPET, and generally avoided talk pages, discussions, or even articles I had discussed with the former account. |
The real reason I stopped contributing to Microsoft articles: Well, it's actually quite simple and I won't go around it (well, I often find myself writing WP:TOOLONG messages, and since I could talk at 9 (nine) months old I have practically always been blabbering non-stop ๐ค๐ป since), the real reason I became less passionate about Microsoft was because Steve Ballmer left the company, his vision for Microsoft was one I liked and the moment Satya Nadella came at helm and started cutting both divisions, products, and services I started to see the โdeletionistโ mentality of Google, and MySpace manifest itself at Microsoft, to this end I became less passionate about adding content, I expanded and created a few Microsoft articles here and there, and with the Xamarin acquisition I temporarily felt passionate to write on Wikipedia again in order to document Xamarinโs history but after that I realised that my addiction to reading Microsoft-related news ๐ฐ websites, and commenting on their and Microsoftโs official โforaโ (forums), and โcoveringโ them had become an unhealthy addiction so I just added references every now, and then so articles wouldn't fail WP:PRIMARY, but most articles were already filled it, and โa hot new generation of editorsโ usually beat me to adding the content anyhow, there were many factors that lead me to stop ๐ค๐ป, but in general I think that it was mostly the disappointment from Windows 10 essentially โbricking โ my laptop ๐ป as I really didn't want to spend 2 (two) or 3 (three), and in one case 8 (eight) hours editing a page that used to only take 5 (five) minutes. |
Sent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ. |
Above my original prime motivation was to make sure that โMicrosoft Mobile Oy was better documented than Nokiaโ at first creating more references, links, redirects, and even articles, after succeeding I started to move to other Microsoft articles, I had effectively created a world where one could use Wikipedia to check on Microsoft articles related to mobile devices and not need to venture outside for much (additional) information, to that end I also edit Asian numismatic articles. Now I used to exclusively use a pre-prepares โcitewebโ references for Microsoft articles all the time, not only are they so well documented that good sources are โa dime a dozenโ, but generally speaking theyโre so easy to find that you canโt NOT stumble upon them, and though I still take some (wellโฆ a lot of) pride in improving all of those Microsoft articles, and creating a fair share of them too, I simply can't say that this editing style translated well into the Numismatic โregionโ of Wikipedia, you see Wikipedia is like a multiverse, there are โocean-planetsโ of information you can find, all connected somehow, but the Numismatic articles are kind of โspecialโ as in that their web documentation is less than optimal, numismatists today (as of July 18th, 2017) still largely rely on paper works for reference, and to obtain any of these works one must often travel ๐ข (in person) to those places to obtain all the books ๐, many of them are so obscure that they're not on the internet, or even when they are can only be ordered in the(ir) country of origin, so what can we add? Well as editing numismatic articles require a lot more research it also often requires us to use sources that donโt easily fit in the โcitewebโ reference formula, I had attempted it but it's not uncommon for some parameters to not be able to be filled in, authors may be unknown, the date of publishing is rarely mentioned (even with Microsoft-related articles I could still find it in the U.R.L. if I couldn't find it in the body of text), with the โRyuukyuuan coinsโ article by Dr. Luke Roberts I can kind of more lucky ๐ did document some of his publishing dates, but only when they were last updated. |
3rd disclaimer: Though I write above that it was my โmissionโ to always make Microsoft-related articles bigger, and with more references than their competitorsโ articles this didn't imply that I would delete content from those other articles (as I would still sometimes contribute to those), it simply meant that I would prefer to add โas much content as possible, with as much references as possibleโ for this โcompetitionโ, I am โa Radical Inclusionistโ and would be against deleting content even if I passionately hate that content, I just hate deletion even moreโฆ โ๐ปโ๐ปโ๐ปโ๐ปโ๐ปโ๐ปโ๐ปโ๐ปโ๐ปโ๐ป |
With technology articles WP:NEWS ๐ฐ ends right on the doorstep, whatever news ๐ฐ you read about technology will probably be on Wikipedia tommorow, and thatโs not a bad ๐ ๐ป thing, however with Numismatic articles both the nature of the sources written about. Them, how you can integrate them into Wikipedia, and the research you must conduct to add them are all radically different, but Iโll explain how different those are later below. A little bit about my style on Wikimedia Commons before Iโll dive too deep into the thought process of writing numismatic articles for Wikipedia. ๐ ๐ค |
As I had said I have long seen Wikimedia Commons as โbasically another Cloud service for storageโ but that doesn't mean that I would upload images here that fall โout of scopeโ, to that end I use the Facebook, and a myriad of other services to back those up, my โnewโ mentality is that โ1 cloud โ service isn't enough, there should be a minimum of 5 just in case one gets discontinuedโโฆ during the beginning of what I like to call โThe Cloud โ Eraโ I started to excessively back-up all of my flash-drives online, I had moved every file ๐ from external drives into my laptop ๐ป to only move those to online services, several years ago I took it upon myself to bring all non-copyrighted files into Wikimedia Commons, and sometimes by coincidence I still stumble upon my old pictures on Wikipedia (and once even in a news ๐ฐ article) but thatโs besides the point, after that I even decided that Wikimedia Commons would become โmy primary host for non-personal imagesโ superseding Microsoft OneDrive, Dropbox, MEGA Privacy ๐ and Google Drive, concurrent with me using the Facebook (and Facebook-Messenger) for personal files, of course I have already explained before that when I take pictures I make sure that theyโre โwithin scopeโ, and it's actually quite rare that I even look at my older pictures so the only reason I even keep them is because Iโmโa crazy hoarderโ, but how does this relate to me improving Wikipedia? Well, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and would always need images, and a lot of images here can be used on other websites and even โthe Outernetโ (real life) as well. So weโve established that the closets filled with U.S.B. Sticks, external hard drives, and floppy disks, C.D.(-R.O.M.)โs, and D.V.D.(-R.O.M.?)โs I (used to) own are now publicly available, and that I seem to hold this mentality with even my own thoughts, how can that lead to an improvement of those articles? Continue reading for the answer. |
Note ๐: I said โused toโ because I specifically โdonatedโ (read: Gave away(, as gifts ๐ )) my external storage devices after moving all of the files out into the Cloud โ, with services like Wikimedia Commons. |
Just to be clear: COMMONS:NOTHOST ends where the usability of pictures ๐ท for educational purposes begin, thereโs plethora of users who have uploaded more pictures ๐ท to Wikimedia Commons in a year than most (if not all) gratis Cloud โ storages would allow, Iโm not arguing for a justification of my actions, just that my actions are already justified, when I take pictures ๐ท I make sure that I can use them for educational purposes, and lately I sometimes only took pictures ๐ท to upload to Wikimedia Commons rather than the other way around. And yes, even the most โmundaneโ things can find their way to educational uses here, I only uploaded a few pictures of food by accidentally clicking on them with an older account and recently found out that theyโre on the top of a Wikipedia page about them, if you read this and think about not uploading a picture ๐ท of some tree ๐, DO IT (well, after checking if there aren't plenty enough pictures ๐ท of that tree ๐ here already. ๐ ). |
Sent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ. |
So naturally the next step would be to write about what the differences are in adding numismatic-related references, and technology-related references. |
Well, let's take a closer look at Dr. Robertsโ work shall we, on his website he specified a few sources as to where he gets his information from, all of those sources tend to be in Japanese (with one notable exception regarding Korean coinage), with technology-related news ๐ฐ... Uhhhm โarticlesโ youโll find that most of these are just โcopy-and-pasteโ pieces with some MINOR commentary on it, often copied directly from the source or from another site, that copied it from another site, that copied it from the source. All of these are usually easy to trace online, and when someone says โthe internet is not a substitute for your local libraryโ I get angry... though recently I learned that they're quite right (FOR NOW), if I want to research the local history of some neighbourhood in some random German village, chances are that Iโll have to go to that village or the nearest larger urban settlement to find sources about it's history, and with finding sources for numismatic articles itโs unfortunately not that much different. The majority of websites I could find on Asian coinage were last updates in the 1990โs (no joke), and most refer to books ๐ that simply arenโt accessible online. |
Sent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ. |
Now with the โRyuukyuuan monโarticle I simply mostly used Dr. Robertsโ work and I couldn't find any other English language resources to use, so I had to resort to using more Japanese resources as I can read Chinese characters ๐ I can easily peruse through Japanese Wikipedia, though Shinjitai is a pain in the... neck, I can still convert it to Kyuujitai in order to convey the message, after that I started to more excessively โmigrateโ all of my numismatic browser favourites onto Wikipedia. ๐โก๐ |
My next article up for expansion was โKorean munโ, simply because for years that article had bothered me, before I started expanding it the entire history of Korean currencies in it were basically just 3 (three) very ambiguous sentences โGoryeo produced some coinsโ (never specified which coins, when, or for how long, what the inscriptions read, or their denominations, only that they briefly produced coins, then abandoned it), โJoseon made coins before the Sangpyeong Tongboโ, (same complaints as before), and โthe Sangpyรดng Tongbo coins were produced for a long timeโ (no reason was given as to why, how, barely when, and no information when it started, who started it, and why it remained so popular for so long, or why it was discontinued), of course anyone interested in these coins would learn... That they existed, and thatโs about it. |
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However in my Microsoft Edge favorites there lies an article called Korean coins written by one Gary Ashekenazy on his website Primal Trek. Now take a look at the treasure trove of information in that article, it details so much while at that point in the the โKorean munโ article detailed from almost nothing to nothing, the Primal Trek article lists the complete monetary history of pre-colonial Korea in vivid detail, it names the rulers, the economic circumstances that lead to the production of coinages, as well as the reversion back to barter. So I added this one source to the article, thereโs a HUUUUUGE list of 52 different mint marks that I had to configure for Wikipedia, and I โinventedโ a new list for the pre-Joseon coinsโฆ then suddenly I got a copyright ยฉ strike, despite spending days in Microsoft Outlook rewording and paraphrasing the sentences for some reason it got seen as โnot different enoughโ well, I couldn't just let the article shrink like that so I took ALL of the lost content, became OBSESSED with Wikitables, and then hosted it only in Microsoft Outlook until I could find a way to reinsert it back into the article. |
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Well, meet other sources, I started looking for more and more sources on the Korean mun until I could add that back, this is where the beauty of Wikipedia plays very beautifully in, though โIโ (the world ๐บ, really) gladly didn't lose the mint marks table the article was still missing some crucial information, so I added more sources in order not to become โtoo dependentโ on Primal Trek alone, then I could re-publish the old content (half of which was now in a Wikitable), with lots of new information. This is what I love ๐ the most about Wikipedia, Primal Trek details some things, other sources others, Primal Trek only uses Chinese so I had to add the Joseonโgeul (partially because I had become paranoid that if I wouldn't do it that another copyright strike would be given ๐ฐ ), and the article grew even larger than it was before the content was removed. |
I started Revisiting the โRyuukyuuan monโ article after that looking for more sources as I was afraid that the same bot might strike that article too, I kept looking, and looking and didn't find much English language information to I started browsing Japanese language websites and I found a tonne of information I thankfully could use, I inserted (yet another/a) Wikitable, and added more references, and sources to differentiate it from Dr. Robertsโ page. |
So why is this on Commons? You might ask, well very simple, I want Wikipedia to be in itself โindependentโ for direct relevant information ๐ from other places, mostly because I fear ๐ฑ that the other websites arenโt as durable as Wikipedia but here I would ask you, I added more information ๐ to the โKorean munโ article than Primal Trek has, and more information to the โRyuukyuuan monโ article than Dr. Luke Roberts has... ยฟHaven't I essentially made both of those obsolete? Information-wise ๐ probably โyesโ, but generally speaking thereโs still 1 (one) thing both most unfortunately still do better than Wikipedia. When it comes to a subject like coins an image โspeaks a thousand wordsโ, before I used to loathe it when people said that, but... How does a Setaka Tsuuhou look? Or a Chuuzan Tsuuhou just by visiting the article I had created? Well, you donโt know, and even though Daise Tsuuhou, and Setaka Tsuuhou coins are described as โnot uncommonโ, and โcheapโ I couldn't find any on eBay to buy to later take a picture ๐ท of so I could โdonateโ it to Wikimedia Commons to insert on Wikipedia. Now take a close look at the โHistory of Korean Coinageโ article by Mr. Gary Ashkenazy, one thing it does exquisitely is present you with images of every Sangpyรดng Tongbo mint mark, and every miscellaneous character used, in fact Gary Ashkenazy went all the way to host other peopleโs pictures ๐ท on his website to make sure that his readers will get the most complete information ๐, now look back the โKorean munโ article, after expanding it information-wise it's easily superior for those that only come to read, but letโs say you own a Korean mun coin and wish to know what every symbol means but you arenโt the best at recognising written Chinese characters? Well, then the work ๐ข done by Mr. Gary Ashkenazy still serves you better. ๐ ... For now. Do you want to know how many images of mint marks of Korean mun coins are there right now (as in July 18th, 2017) in Wikimedia Commons... Take a guess... 1 (one), the are around 5.000 different variants but literally only one (1) is here available for you to see, or use on Wikipedia, sad ๐ข isn't it, I personally owned 3 (three) at the time of expanding the โKorean munโ article, and bought 10 (ten) more on eBay for the sole reason of taking pictures ๐ท of them for Wikimedia Commons. |
Sent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ. |
Now let's quickly dive a bit deeper into the mentality behind me wanting to make sure that as much mint mark pictures are available as possible, and for that one needs to smply look at how I store things in my life. As of now with merely 3 boxes ๐ฆ ๐ฆ ๐ฆ I could move all of my stuff from home ๐ (not counting that of my spouse or offspring, just myself 3 medium-sized boxes, also excluding clothes ๐), I wrote before about having a myriad of external storages, well Wikimedia Commons & the Facebook plus a few dozen of other Clouds โ helped me give those away, closets filled with books ๐? Yeah, in my youth but anything I can have as an eBook I will donate to charity or give away as a gift ๐, how about personal documents, receipts, other paper? Well, except for a select few I send them all to the government for various reasons. And this mentality extends to my internet browser bookmarks ๐, my dream is to only put โWikipediaโ in my โNumismaticaโ folder ๐, and to that end I actually quite accomplished it ๐, this fear ๐ฑ comes out of a phobia for link-rot, or the fear that when the physical administrator of those websites die ๐ that all of the information they had published will be lost forever, to this end I hope that by โstoringโ all of their words on Wikipedia that in such an event will happen that those interested in those numismatic articles will still find the information ๐ on Wikipedia. This further leads to me contacting the makers of those websites if they would want to upload their pictures ๐ท to Wikimedia Commons with some mixed results... |
To all โDeletionistsโ out there reading this, the content I add is well condensed down enough to be โencyclopedicโ, I may find myself guilty of WP:CITEOVERKILL, but not of adding irrelevant details. ๐ With โDeletionistsโ one canโt argue though, you take them to the talk page and they'll revert your edits there too, many argue that if an account gets blocked that any page and/or image theyโve ever created should get deleted too, theyโre bullies that donโt listen to reason, Wikipedia is a digital encyclopedia and doesn't have to be limited to the limitations of its paper siblings but these people do want to reduce it to nothing but that. Excuse me for ranting, I just get angry at the amount of personal insults one can expect on Wikipedia... Some people are used to it like my wifeโs best-friend calls her โuglyโ, โfatโ, โstupidโ, Etc. Evety day but I have an (unwritten) agreement with my best-friend that we simply don't insult each other and those different personality types can meet and what would seem normal to them would be insulting to me, sometimes I even avoid talk pages because of bad experiences with editors lime that, so let ne get back to my motivations for editing Wikipedia, and why that immediately affects me here on Wikimedia Commons. |
Now with the Tenpou Tsuuhou I feel(/felt) great shame, in fact last Christmas ๐ (2016) I had bought 2 (two) Tenpou Tsuuhou coins for my sister, and my best friend. When I wanted to show them information on the history of that coin the only real information I could find was from this video-game blog right here. โThatโs not problematicโ many would exclaim, well if you would go to the โJapanese mon (currency)โ article before I touched it literally no information ๐ where other than that โtempoโ is Japanese for 100 (one-hundred), which it really isn't. So naturally I had to look for more reliable sources because a video-game blog isn't reliable enough for a numismatic article, and I had later found out that some of the information ๐ she wrote was plain wrong ๐๐ป, to this end I had to use Bing a lot, I had one vague memory of fake Tenpou Tsuuhou coins being a collectible gift ๐ for children in the 1950โs with the fakes being worth more than the real ones but had trouble finding that (rather bloggy) source.. Which I eventually did but that still wouldn't be enough, and since I never do โarticles for creationโ but also never had any of my articles deleted I felt that I had to look for more sources (my โ8 references-ruleโ I kept from my โMicrosoft periodโ where any Microsoft or Nokia service article I found with a โlacks WP:NOTABILITYโ tag would have at least that much references inserted by me from different sources ABD/AND different authors.), thankfully the above video-game blog had some sources, but Wikipedia was 2 of them, and the rest barely talked about the coin, so I began digging on Microsoft Bing to look for English-language sources and found... Some, enough, but barely, many sources I would often never use because they don't meet my criteria but I had to and then I was lucky ๐ enough to stumble across a .pdf file ๐ that talked about how that coin caused inflation on the Japanese market, and that .pfd was both academic ๐ and contained plenty of sources in itself for me to use, then I was forced to go to Japanese Wikipedia and find some Japanese sources to find out other stuff what the aforementioned video-game blog was wrong ๐๐ป about, and to find out who the original designer of the coin was, and it was ready for publishing, doing all of that work ๐ข made me hungry to edit some more. |
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A quick (little) disclaimer: I did not exclusively start the โTenpou Tsuuhouโ article because I ONLY wanted to publish the Tomb Raider (blog) article, I added an image of a Tenpou Tsuuhou coin to the โJapanese mon (currency)โ article and thought to myself, โwell, now my work ๐ข here is done on that subjectโ, it wasn't until I found the articleโ20 yen coinโ that I said to myself โwell, precedent has been set, time to work on a Tempou Tsuuhou articleโ. ๐ In fact the โinfobox_coinโ I used for the โTenpou Tsuuhouโ article is wholly derived from that one. ๐๐๐ |
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Now the story of how I found the references I used for the Tenpuo Tsuuhou article is too interesting to leave out, E.g. Did you know that Gotou San'emonโs personal Kaou appears on the Tenpou Tsuuhou? Well, apparently prior to publishing I was the only English-speaking person that knew that. ๐ Now first of all the Tenpou Tsuuhou was the only coin not covered by Dr. Luke Roberts from the University of California at Santa Barbara, second of all I had trouble establishing a WP:COMMONNAME as some sources claim that โTempou Tsuuhouโ is correct, while others swear by โTenpou Tsuuhouโ, I eventually settled on โTenpou Tsuuhouโ after taking note from the โTenpouโ era Wikipedia article having clearly established precedent to lean on. My search for references started at the bottom of the Tomb Raider website/fansite, the blog-post/article states that the Kaou belongs to Gotou Shozaburo Mitsutsugu, or at least his family ๐ช๐ป, she names a source clarifying the Gotou family history and what theyโve meant foR the monetary history of the Tokugawa Shogunate, but though I did use the source to establish the WP:NOTABILITY of why their family ๐ช๐ป history should be mentioned in the โTenpou Tsuuhouโ article, it didn't mention anything about his kaou being that on the Tebpou Tsuuhou coin, while looking for references I stumbled upon this entry on Charm.ru (linked there also by the Tomb Raider website/fansite) which claims that the kaou is the โComposed signature of mintmaster Hashimoto Mitsujiโ, now a quick Bing search ๐ later and I literally canโt find this name anywhere, and this name only pops up on the Chinese Coinage Website, searching the name in Chinese characters (Kanji) gets me exactly 0 results, though skeptical of the claim I still inserted it (to my regret) into Wikipedia. If one would look at the โTenpou Tsuuhouโ, and โJapanese mon (currency)โ articlesโ history one would find me engaging in an โedit warโ with myself over the mint-master, well the answer was already there on Japanese Wikipedia. Naturally the Japanese Wikipedia article of the โTenpou Tsuuhouโ was where I would find the answer, another English-language source claimed that the Kaou belonged to โthe Gotou family ๐ช๐ปโ but never specified anyone, so after digging some more I found some reliable Japanese language references that definitively states that the kaou belongs to none other than Gotou San'emon, the contemporary head of the Kinza. At this point I had become more dependent on the Japanese Wikipedia article and started doing more translation work from there than research on Microsoft Bing. While looking on Microsoft Bing literally every other result was just a blog post of someone who doesn't know how to properly spell โTenpou Tsuuhouโ what the coin is, thankfully the people who replied tended to name books and quoted from those books, from a reliable English language (or Dutch language/Belgophone?) source I found the mintage number of Tenpou Tsuuhou coins to be around half a milliard, dubious at first I checked the Japanese Wikipedia ABD/and this claim seemed to hold true. Eventually I dug up ๐๐ป a(n English language) blog dedicated to Tenpou Tsuuhouโs and I finally had enough sources to publish the article with substantial information ๐ . This time I didn't even need to make pictures ๐ท of the Tenpou Tsuuhou I own because there were already plenty on Wikimedia Commons. Upon publishing the โTenpou Tsuuhouโ article pbably became โThe most authorative source on Tenpou Tsuuhou coins in the English-speaking/-reading world ๐บโ, itโs also the only article I have written about literally just one coin. ๐ฐ |
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While writing for the โRyuukyuuan monโ article I stumbled upon another article calles โMing dynasty coinageโ, my whole introduction into the world ๐บ of Chinese coinage was on Wikipedia from a similarly named โAncient Chinese articleโ but I had soon noticed that their similarities ended at the name, the โMing dynasty coinageโ article was (and as of July 18th, 2017 still is) hideously sub-par. All it did was list all of the coins with only Simplified Chinese characters, and most of the article was exclusively about post-Ming dynasty, pro-Ming dynasty rebels, though all of the sources (except for one) were bare links to an auction site that didn't work โ of the time ๐ , so I had to โlink huntโ, while only adding minimum content as my opinion of it was/is โa cesspool thatโs too much work ๐ข for me to fix ๐ โ. While adding sources I stumbled upon a source that actually named all of the post-Ming Dynasty rebel coinages, when I inserted that link at a new section dubbed โsourcesโ I had found that a minute later some bot deleted ALL OF MY ADDITIONS indiscriminately, the bot claimed that I was vandalising the page triggered by a certain link I had inserted, I reverted the bot and then placed the โspamโyโ link immediately in the text as a โregular referenceโ, so I appealed to the botโs creator and eventually my edits were ruled as sound additions, however this made me paranoid in future edits causing me to often change my I.P. address or withhold from editing until I was on a public I.P. in order to not get mass-reverted like that again (though it didn't happen I still behave in this โevasive mannerโ), judging by the state of things I went back to the โAncient Chinese coinageโ article and found that it had abruptly ended at the mid of the Northern Song Dynasty period for some reason, while in the comment section... Ehhh... Talk page I found out that the author of the donated book (Cast Chinese coins) ๐ Sir David Hartill himself found that the article should end around the year 1000 as nothing afterwards can really be described as โancientโ, I could agree with that logic, but I still had to continue where he left off so I began writing the โYuan dynasty coinageโ article. |
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I then began writing the โYuan dynasty coinageโ purely as a means to โfill the gapโ between the โAncient Chinese coinageโ, and โMing dynasty coinageโ articles. Originally I bought David Hartillโs book ๐ to write this article, this was both the cause and a subsequence of what I like to call โthe David Hartill Cycle ๐ โ I found David Hartill in MANY articles on Asian coinages on Wikipedia, therefore I started using him in articles on Asian coinages for Wikipedia. However I still have to live by the โ8-References ruleโ, and honestly my prime motivation was โmaking Primal Trek useless for information ๐ on Chinese & Korean coinagesโ, this became my rule after finding this complete outline on he history of Chinese coinages. I mean I respect Mr. Gary Ashkenazy and all, but thereโs no guarantee that his site will be up ๐๐ป 10 (ten) years from now, Wikipedia will. Another reason was simply that I wanted to have a detailed overview of Mongol coinage in the Yuan Dynasty, at drafting I first started with Primal Trek โfor the skeleton โ โ of the article, expanding with David Hartill (mostly for the list, and later โrebel (faction) coinagesโ), and then looking for additional references. ๐๐๐ |
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Finding a reference list for 5000 years of Chinese coinage (in reality this only spans around 2 and a ยฝ thousand years.), and realising that the โAncient Chinese coinageโ article that contains a lot of material donated by Sir David Hartill made me realise that creating the โYuan dynasty coinageโ article didn't completely โfill the gapโ, next up was a new article I would create solely to โfill the gapโ, an article exclusively written not out of my own interest in the subject, but by my obsession to make sure that I could use Wikipedia as โa standalone complete book on numismaticsโ independent from outside sources, or at least that others would not need to check outside immediately for information regarding these subjects. |
Originally I had planned to write a single article bridging the โAncient Chinese coinageโ article, and the โYuan dynasty coinageโ article. However my main problem on creating that one article was that I couldn't create a working name, I thought โMedieval Chinese coinageโ but the term โMedievalโ is exclusively used for European history, โDark age Chinese coinageโ, well China never had any โDark agesโ thatโs unique to Europe, the Mayans, and the Khmer/Cambodians and the latter only ended in the 19th century when they came under French protection. So my decision wasn't on the name yet I create a unified formula on how these coinages would function within the same article, half-chronologic, half-alphabetic. The thing became impossible to draft, all the tables looked the same but the Tangut one needed extra characters, while with the Jurchens not all of the same information ๐ was known, the formula kept in place for the time being but as I started thinking up ๐๐ป a plethora of redirects I placed at the bottom (kind of below the whole โSent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ.โ, but above another โSent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ.โ) I started getting confused ๐ as to where I had to write next, or which part could be filled in, some information ๐ overlapped while others obviously didn't fit together. The original proposed style was always Lead -> Background -> History -> List, and David Hartillโs Cast Chinese Coins would serve as the main source for all 4 collection of sections (mostly the lists) but eventually my phone crashed too much while working on all of then simultaneously, and as someone who drafts in Microsoft Outlook I often get the annoying bit where my phone crashes and the entire draft is deleted, then I get mad ๐ก, and rename the (now empty) draft to โI don't like Satya Nadellaโ (well, a more explicit title) and work all over again from โmy last saveโ which I started doing obsessively after finishing every individual Emperor when I started working on the lists (even if that Emperor only had like 2 coins). |
So I started writing around 20 drafts separately, 5 lists (4 for Chinese coins, and 1 for Tangut), 4 Primal Trek history drafts, 4 Primal Trek list drafts, some David Hartill-based drafts, and additional drafts from other sources with the โ5000 yearsโ reference list being my first and foremost draft for both the Southern Song Dynasty, and the Jurchen Jin Dynasty, but as that list didnโt contain any Khitan (Liao Dynasty), or Tangut (Western-Xia Dynasty) coins I had to fill those in with other references. |
My general drafting style was always to first use the โ5000 yearsโ reference list, then use Gary Ashkenazy's Primal Trek to fill in the history, then use Gary Ashkenazyโs Primal Trek to fill in (the rest of) the (coin) list, then use David Hartillโs โCast Chinese coinsโ for additional information ๐. For both the โSouthern Song dynasty coinageโ, and โJurchen Jin dynasty coinageโ articles this worked quite well. Originally after searching ๐ for more sources on Microsoft Bing I found an academic source ๐ explaining the economic, & monetary systems of China under the Southern Song ๐ถ Dynasty, as well as explaining how the different regional monetary systems affected local cultures more than language, resources, and other things, and usable for later the outflow of Chinese cash coins to the Jurchens (The Jin Dynasty). After being quite satisfied with my โSouthern Song dynasty coinageโ draft I started working on the Jurchen Jin Dynastyโs coinage, first the โ5000 yearsโ reference list, then Gary Ashkenazy's Primal Trek, then David Hartillโs โCast Chinese coinsโ, and then the aforementioned source, then look for more, after this search ๐ I came out quite disappointed, with the Khitan โLiao dynasty coinageโ, and Tangut โWestern Xia dynasty coinageโ articles I did the same process as before but with the Khitan โLiao dynasty coinageโ I really couldn't find any additional sources causing me to break my โ8 references ruleโ upon publishing that article. When I was as good as done with the โWestern Xia dynasty coinageโ article I found Andrew Westโs BabelStone and an article regarding Tangut coins, I had already spent quite a lot of time using David Hartillโs โLee Ndzenโ romanisations but now I had to re-configure it. ๐ ๐ ๐ |
So I published all 4 (four) articles simultaneously, though I saw the Southern Song, and Jurchen Jin articles as being โas good as completeโ, I saw the โWestern Xia dynasty coinageโ article as less than desirable, and the โLiao dynasty coinageโ article as โready to be deleted at any momentโ, in fact after realising the extreme scarcity in online sources regarding both subjects I dropped creating both โbackgroundโ, and โHistoryโ sections quite early in their development, after publishing I spent days looking for additional sources, now the event that lead to me greatly expanding the โLiao dynasty coinageโ article I like to dub โthe Miracle of the North(ern Steppes)โ, it was in the 4th, or 8th page of search ๐ results on Microsoft Bing that I found a very long .pdf from an academic source ๐ that explained the full monetary history of the Khitan Liao dynasty, the ethnic, and cultural compositions of all subdivisions, how regional cultures were (differently) affected by varying monetary system, the relation between nomadic lifestyles and coinage at various points in Liao dynasty history, the individual mintage numbers of every subdivision, how war-time propaganda might have affected historical records, peace-time mintage numbers, why, and how some regions reverted back to barter, and the ethnic, and cultural relations of the regions with copper (cash) coinage. In one go I could suddenly expand the โLiao dynasty coinageโ article well beyond that of the Jurchen Jin Dynasty, though tแปฑ this day I still check up on the โWestern Xia dynasty coinageโ article if I could expand it... ๐ |
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After that I really thought to myself โalright, time to do the Qing Dynasty coinageโ, but I openly adopted a โback-seat ๐บ policyโ for the Qing Dynastyโs coinage because I would have to dive into an ocean ๐ฆ of sources, references, content, and too much to work with so I started focusing on other projects like attempting to put ALL non-Qing Dynasty-related Primal Trek content into Wikipedia, this brought me to the โZhou Dynasty coinageโ article, and though I was originally fine with simply adding the โ5.000 yearsโ reference list, and Primal Trek into external links I later migrated them, and their content into the bodies of various articles (yes, I made it my actual mission to migrate AN ENTIRE WEBSITE written by Mr. Gary Ashkenazy into Wikipedia before even contemplating the โQing Dynasty coinageโ article), this eventually brought me to the Banliang (sic) article. With the Ban Liang there were literally 0 (nill/zero) sources when I first saw it, yet no templates were placed concerning this fact, so I immediately inserted 3 (different) articles from Sir Gary Ashkenazy's Primal Trek, David Hartillโs โCast Chinese coinsโ, and looked for other (sometimes more academic) sources immediately. I inserted another Wikitable (yeah, I know, Iโm addicted to composing them ๐ ), and expanded that article. |
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Still obsessed with avoiding having to write the โQing dynasty coinageโ article I looked towards the โVietnamese cashโ article, I had long been grateful for that article as the links ๐ at the bottom had introduced me to Semaโs Art-Hanoi which I have used as a reference for collecting French Indo-Chinese, and Viet-Namese money ๐ด since I was a teenager. Upon expanding the article I created (yet another/a) Wikitable, this time planning on first using Ed Todaโs โAnnam and its minor currencyโ (1882), and then using some additional information from a ... Well... Sudoku website (though they do call themselves the โAsian Numismatic Museumโ), that had a detailed list of Vietnamese era dates, as well as Dr. Barkerโs work. Though I did quite document how I wrote the article there myself, however as I was doing research I stumbled upon a website by a Non-Hispanic Vietnamese-American author who also wrote for the Chinese Coinage Website on his own website exploring Vietnamese history, and culture. Despite the scope of that website it contained detailed chapters on the monetary history of Japanโs copper coinages so naturally this meant that I would have to greatly expand the โJapanese mon (currency)โ article, originally I began drafting a new article called the โNagasaki Trade Coinsโ, while doing more research for it I found out that Japanese Wikipedia already had an article on it, and only after publishing it (well, I forced myself to both write, AND publish it as at the time I really, really thought โPLEASE LET ME DO EVERYTHING EXCEPT FOR A QING DYNASTY COINAGE ARTICLEโ leading me to make that article, then while doing research I had first inserted a full list of Japanese government-minted coins, then regional coinages, after that I greatly expanded the โJapanese mon (currency)โ article as well, ironically finding most information from Vietnamese sources. |
While doing research for the โVietnamese cashโ article I found that Vietnamese Wikipedia has articles for the individual coinages of every Vietnamese era, unfortunately English language information ๐ on the subject wasn't so easy to find. |
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After โcompletingโ Korea, Viet-Nam, and Japan I went to the โChinese cash ๐ฐโ articles, which are 3 (though technically 4 if you'd count the โMace (unit) article) articles, at first I started writing more about Chinese Republican cast cash coins, I created (yet another/a) Wikitable, then I greatly expanded the article by adding a whole bit on how these/those coins were manufactured all the way from the beginning to end as I both didn't want to start writing the โQing Dynasty coinageโ article, and thought of a new scope for the โCash (Chinese coin)โ article to be separate from all the other more detailed articles on Chinese (and neighbouring) coinages, this article could more be about the nature of those coins, but as I ran into the machine-struck parts of the article I really did finally begin to realise that I had nothing left to do, and would have to begin writing the โQing Dynasty coinageโ article, so I started doing research and while typing in โQing Dynasty coinageโ in Microsoft Bing this is your first result โproudlyโ presented on the top, and still is (as of July 19th, 2017), a blog written in really bad English and written in a manner that reminded me of the Chinese people that โpingโ me on my QQ that have never seen a foreigner in their life and just want to talk to one at least once, seemed hopeful, cheerful, and most of all peaceful, but not academic and it wasn't until I had already started drafting the โQing dynasty coinageโ article that I realised that it probably wasn't worthy to be oN Wikipedia, but it did provide SOME information, and most importantly images as visual examples (still making it a kind of โusefulโ external link). Well it was the only English language article etitled โQing Dynasty coinageโ before I started writing one. ๐ |
After that I finally started (kind of) drafting the โQing dynasty coinageโ article. At first I started browsing the blog by Learner and started checking out what I could write about first, I already built up a vision of how a โQing Dynasty coinageโ article would look like, and I had already envisioned a whole separate paragraph for the Sichuan Rupee after reading this post, and this follow up post, but then after first searching Wikipedia I found it in the Tibet article and eventually I made the redirects I had planned for the Qing article go there, added minimum content to the โTibetโ section, mostly just rewording it here and there and kept it relevant to the Qing while (regretfully) inserting Learnerโs entry there. My next objective was adding the โ5.000 yearsโ reference list, also because that list actually included some Manchu mint marks. At first I still mostly relied on Learner but then I stumbled upon one โWu Zhuโ coin, and then another โWu Zhuโcoin causing me to first finish the Manchu list, after that I started using Sir Gary Ashkenazyโs Primal Trek for the history, split that into one for โbHistorgโ, and one for โChinese mint marksโ, after finishing the โChinese mint marksโ, I merged it with the Manchu mint marks, at first I refrained from using David Hartill until the very last moment to โfill in the gapsโ, after first finishing the list I found another (more accurate) list by a more academic source ๐. This source debunked the existence of a โGuang Xu Yuan Baoโ cash coin claiming it was only a struck coin, and added more information on denominations, and even some rarer coins, I kept re-writing, and then re-configuring the same list over, and over again with new information ๐. |
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After that I โtook a breakโ from the main body and started focusing on integrated every last bit of Gary Ashkenazy's Primal Trek into the article, while beginning to draft an East-Turkestan (โXinjiangโ) section, with East-Turkestan I was extremely lucky, I found a long piece written by a museum that included highly detailed information on every East-Turkestani mint, detailed analyses on the metallic content of every East-Turkestani cash coin from every period from Qian Long until Xuan Tong, it contained mintage figures, separate information ๐ on regional differences within East-Turkestan (โXinjiangโ), and best of all a looooooong list of academic and highly respected sources in both Mandarin-Chinese, and Czech. Re-wording it wasn't difficult as it relied mostly on archaic terms and uncommon phrases I could easily replace E.g. โJunggarโ = โDzungarโ, and I could easily attribute every sentence to the sources they themselves provided causing the โQing Dynasty coinageโ article to have nearly 100 (one-hundred) references upon publishing. Writing this article inspired me to go to eBay to buy the coins described in this article to take pictures ๐ท of for Wikimedia Commons, later in the drafting process I finally finished off Gary Ashkenazy's Primal Trek, and then found yet another website I had already used before but now with highly detailed information ๐, China Knowledge Germany with tonnes of academic sources, and a whole new list of Manchu mint marks, so I decided to merge that one with the ones I had after finishing off the โLater Jin Dynasty coinageโ section, what was notable here is that I found that source while looking for Manchu characters to insert into the table there, I could use theirs and suddenly had enough material to start a whole section on silver coinage. Eventually I was near completion of the drafting process, then added David Hartill, and then started looking for a bit more sources, eventually despite my fear ๐ฑ with beginning this article was that you can't avoid Qing dynasty coin information ๐ no natter how hard you try, which is certainly true for copper coinages๏ผ specifically copper cash coins, however with gold coins literally the only โinformation ๐โ (if one might even call ๐ it that) I found was an image from Wikimedia Commons, as of today (July 19th, 2017) I still haven't found any non-auction site to discuss gold Qing coins. But after publishing the article I felt greatly relieved and began concentrating on other projects than Wikipedia leading me here to Wikimedia Commons. |
After I was done with the Qing I started expanding the โPulโ coins article as it was a laughable stub ๐ซ. Now we've reached the end of the journey on Wikipedia, below Iโll write down how all of it relates to what I wish ๐ to achieve here on Wikimedia Commons. |
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What Commons is missing (as of July 19th, 2017)
What Wikipedia needs from Wikimedia Commons in order to improve those articles. |
Above I had named several sources, I did claim that I made Wikipedia โthe best sourceโ by combining all of their individual information ๐ into those articles, if Iโd lose my browser favourites today I could still go to those articles and find all the information ๐ I need without having to even leave Wikipedia. . . . Well, all information ๐... Except for images, even the worst-written โspam-likeโ references I named still have more images to illustrate than the Wikipedia articles, most unfortunately I don't own most of those coins so I could upload them here, and collecting all of them will probably take years so Iโll make it โmy slow missionโ, thereโs simply way more I can contribute by uploading those pictures ๐ท, and for now I can't call Wikipedia โthe best source ๐ for Asian coinsโ but I could for information. In the end my mission is complete for writing, but there's always a coin I don't have, so itโs time to open my wallet ๐, and donate good quality pictures ๐ท to Wikimedia Commons in order to improve the aforementioned Wikipedia articles. I really hope that this can become โa community projectโ with others helping too but it's been years and these images are still scarce, itโs time to bring my camera ๐ท out and start working. ๐ค๐ป๐ |
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Primal Trek (primaltrek) by Gary Ashkenazy (ืืืจื ืืฉืื ืื )
I am not a spammer, and verifying content isn't. โadding spamlinksโ. ๐คจ | |
I saw lots of stubs, I knew of a website that had tons of information ๐ on those subjects, and I added that website as inline references to various articles including 7 I had created (published) by myself... Then I got blocked and the first thing that was concluded is that I was a spammer. ๐ | |
Libel and slander. | |
And the worst part is that I am being incorrectly accused of being a spammer. ๐ | |
I have never in my life received any money or compensation for any edit Iโve ever made I simply do not get paid to edit Wikipedia, on the contrary I pay to edit Wikipedia (no not through donations, no offense but I prefer to donate my time to research articles and expand them). I have bought several books including David Hartillโs Cast Chinese Coinage to expand or create articles on Chinese numismatics, I did use Primal Trek (the website I'm being accused of having a COI with) a lot but if you divide it among a dozen Chinese coin articles and 7 new Chinese coinage articles I had created it barely adds up to 2 links a page, in fact the โmost excessiveโ examples being Southern Song dynasty coinage, and Cash (Chinese coin) where it was I think around 5 links, but in all cases those links were related to content and to source them, I donโt just go around randomly adding Primal Trek links in articles (what Iโm being accused of), I simply wanted to expand all content and obviously I use sources and since Primal Trek simply is โa more trusted nameโ and a very big website I milked that website dry to make sure that the Chinese and Korean monetary history articles would be as well expanded as possible. Years ago I did the same with ZDNet, PCWorld, MSPowerUser, WMPowerUser, WinBeta, On MSFT, Etc. to Microsoft-related articles and there are articles with 10 links to Engadget in a single section, but only because Primal Trek was more rarely used the COIBot had a false positive. All my actions concerning mainspace editing were purely for the benefit of the readers and to make Wikipedia articles as complete as possible, in fact on my user page I even claim that if it werenโt for the images I had made โPrimal Trek obsolete in favour of Wikipediaโ. | |
Speaking of images the only contact I had with Gary Ashkenazy was me e-mailing him to donate his images to Wikimedia Commons, and do you know what I did concerning that? Well, I have spent hundreds of euroโs on various coins that Wikimedia Commons doesn't have pictures of just to make pictures. | |
Now letโs check the factsโฆ | |
What I did in Beetstraโs twisted bad faith fantasy: | |
I went around using sockpuppets to randomly add spamlinks for a website I work for across 4 projects. | |
What I actually did: | |
I sourced material (you know what you SHOULD do when adding content to Wikipedia) using a highly trusted and reliable online name in Chinese numismatics, I saw that literally every article except for โAncient Chinese coinageโ was either unsourced or a stub, largely only David Hartillโs book inserted by the author himself (yes, there is an account named DavidHartill operated by the writer, this is an actual COI but letโs only focus on me because I used sockpuppets for something completely unrelated) so I used a well-known source in this field, also note that it was only on articles related to Chinese and Korean coins as Primal Trek doesn't cover Japanese coins unless it's a hoard and barely mentions Vietnamese coins at all, so using a trusted source on Chinese and Korean coins in articles about Chinese and Korean coins is not โspammingโ. | |
And outside of English Wikipedia, well I didn't add it to Serbian Wikipedia that was added years before I registered as Donald Trung (my real name), nor did I add it to German Wikipedia that has also been there for years. I did however include 2 links at Dutch Wikipedia sourcing an article and judging by how very few articles on Dutch Wikipedia cite any references or sources at all deliberately removing sources seems to only be putting salt on that very old long-infected wound, in fact I have even told him that I only planned on using Primal Trek a total of 3 times with โ being in โw:nl:Chinese kรจpรจngsโ and โ in โKoreaanse munโ of course his only reply was โyouโre a COI spammerโ. | |
His libelous claim that I just randomly added spamlinks is nothing short of a personal insult. | |
How Beetstra phrased the question and what it implies. | |
โSo you added spamlinks out of what, altruism?โ | |
(could be paraphrased, hij had het in het Nederlands moeten schrijven zodat ik het makkelijker kan onthouden.) | |
This question basically implies a few things, 1) I simply went around randomly adding a link to a website in various articles for no reason, itโs not like I expanded the content of those articles while doing so. 2) It implies bad faith, at no time did he actually look at where or how I added the links he just called it โspamlinksโ, admittedly Beetstra says himself that he doesn't care what gets linked and where it gets linked to, he just looks who links something how much his definition of โspamโ can include anything from a random blog about images of ceiling fans by a guy named Micheal to a well-researched and well-respected scientific journal. 3) He probably didn't even look at the content supported by the links in the first place, remember that at all times he keeps insisting on me being a spammer and at all times he doesn't care about the actual content of any article, just what's linked there. 4) Maybe he shouldn't be at the global spam project in the first place, this is not an attack on Beetstra it's an assessment and my conclusions from it, if you remove references simply to spite someone you call โa spammerโ even if they werenโt placed there by that person then maybe you should be re-thinking your life and what youโre doing with it, Iโm serious because the whole deal with w:en:WP:SOURCE is that content at Wikipedia should be verified at all times and if your crusade against what you consider to be โspamโ allows for you to indiscriminately remove links then Wikipedia isn't the right place for you. Why should one person be the arbiter of what we can and can't link ๐ to? Even if so, then multiple people should be able to judge that personโs actions and uninvolved editors should be able to criticise them. | |
DISCLAIMER: The above statement is in no way an attack on Beetstra, I am simply criticism his way of operation, I do not want anyone to leave Wikipedia who can make themselves useful here (unlike what he believes), and I am simply saying that his current way of looking at things might be more harmful than it is helpful. | |
And to give a not-so-stupid reply to this very stupid question, โYes, I did it out of altruismโ (remember that Wikipedia exists to educate others, if you learn new things by researching articles it's fun ๐ and all, but the articles themselves get published for the readers). | |
What I know about Gary Ashkenazy. | |
Gary Ashkenazy (Hebrew: ืืืจื ืืฉืื ืื) is an American citizen who lived for 13 years in various w:en:Asian countries such as w:en:South Korea, the w:en:Republic of China, w:en:Thailand, and w:en:Mainland China, his hobbies include amateur radio, w:en:Morse code, wire antennas, computer technologies such as the w:en:OpenBSD operating system, riding motorcycles ๐, and collecting Chinese charms, amulets, and coins, he frequents coin fora (forums?) under the handle of โManymoreโ. As a child his grandmother used to refer to him as โSkinny Roosterโ ๐, and he started collecting Chinese good luck charms and coins while he lived in w:en:Beijing. โWow, you really know a lot about the owner of the website, you clearly are connected with the owner of the website and spammed his site out of your personal relationship with himโ Well, no I can simply name these things because he (Gary Ashkenazy) noted them on another website unrelated to Primal Trek, in fact the only thing I have in common with him (Gary Ashkenazy) is the fact that we both volunteer for the w:en:Red Cross. | |
Unlike Gary Ashkenazy I really donโt have an interest in Chinese charms, in fact I loathe the idea of โgood luck ๐ objectsโ, and by extension I loathe Chinese charms because theyโre nothing but imitations of real money, theyโre not government-made items designed for circulation theyโre non-sensical items designed for superstition, if you may notice a pattern in my editing I only ever use Primal Trek on Chinese coinage-related articles (with only one exception), and to that end I used a several other websites in similar amounts too, these include Charm.ru and Zeno.ru and unlike Gary Ashkenazy I did in fact have a conversation with Vladimir Belyaev (the owner of the aforementioned websites) and the conversations with that person can be found at the archive of the OTRS team in w:en:Wikimedia Commons where I had pasted them, and the only attempt at contact is the e-mail in the section below here. | |
Other things I have in common with him is that we both prefer to use Chinese characters to write Korean, and when we use Latin script we both prefer the North-Korean version (McCune-Reischauer), these things actually helped me in expanding the article, w:en:Korean mun but I had to add Chosลn'gul in order to avoid a 2nd copyright ยฉ strike and to make the WikiTables sufficiently different from the ones at Primal Trek. | |
My personal suspicion is that Gary Ashkenazy either died or retired in 2016 because as of August 20th, 2017 the last entry on his multi-weekly updated monograph site still states November 16th, 2016. (I am not going to update this either, this purely serves to debunk any libelous claims of conflict of interest against my person.) | |
Sent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ. | |
The only e-mail I have sent to Gary Ashkenazy. | |
This is the only e-mail I have sent him since; on June 6th, 2017 to which I have received no reply (as of August 20th, 2017). | |
โDear Mr. Ashkenazy, | |
I am here to request something of you if youโre interested, I want to write more about Chinese coins, and charms on Wikipedia and have already started referencing your work, unfortunately there arenโt that many images available so I would kindly like to ask if you are willing to upload pictures of all of your Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, and Ryukyuan coins and charms to Wikimedia Commons so the Wikipedian community could share your work and knowledge with the world. | |
Thank you for your time. | |
Yours faithfully, | Mr. Trung |
Sent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ.โ | |
To this end I would like to state that not only have I no conflict of interest with the subject at hand, I have absolutely no communication or relation with Primal Trek. The possibilities are simply this, 1) I am in fact Gary Ashkenazy or a hired goon who got paid to edit w:en:Wikipedia by Gary Ashkenazy, or 2) I am a person with a love of Chinese numismatics and monetary history and saw that there is a website with a lot of information on the subject and added as much information ๐ from that site into Wikipedia as possible because I want others interested in the subject to find it here on Wikipedia. | |
Obviously paid editors go around insulting people with sockpuppets because it's not like their livelihood or anything is at stake, and obviously I must be a COI spammer because everyone knows that the worst form of spam anyone can add is writing information to educate others on a subject and daring to verify that information with a source, I mean those vandals. ๐ | |
The numbers. | |
Now letโs look at the numbers, the link was added slightly more than 40 times across all wikis, I had used it once for reference on my Userpage on Wikimedia Commons to show the images I wish to upload after buying those coins myself, and once in my own user page on English Wikipedia to show where I had attempted to contact Mr. Gary Ashkenazy, it was used twice on Serbian Wikipedia once as a source on Ancient Chinese coins and once in a draft by a user named Neboyshka87 (not me), and once in German Wikipedia as a source on Korean coins. Twice on Dutch Wikipedia in an article I had created containing almost 20 sources (if I had a COI I wouldn't bother with other sources at all? I donโt know I donโt get paid to do this and never look how paid editors edit), on English Wikipedia I did use it several times in talk pages often asking legitimate questions if such material on hoards and modern finds could and should be added, the article โZhou Dynasty coinageโ named no sources, I used Primal Trek as one of 4 different sources, โw:en:Knife moneyโ and โw:en:Spade moneyโ both were either unsourced or dependent on one source (youโve guessed it, David Hartill), โw:en:Ming dynasty coinageโ only contained either David Hartill or 12 links to a random auction site often linking to closed auctions (clearly an education website here is โspamโ and an auction website is a reliable source), I have created 6 articles named โ[X] dynasty coinageโ that all included Primal Trek of which the most excessive one has 4 links to Primal Trek and โQing Dynasty coinageโ an article with over 100 references only contains 3 links to Primal Trek. โw:en:Cash (Chinese coin)โ is probably the only article where the link is used disproportionately compared to other sources but every time that I added Primal Trek I was sure to add at least 1 or 2 other sources to back the claim up. | |
Per article. | |
The article w:en:Ban Liang was previously unsourced, I added a total of 13 sources of which one was David Hartill's book ๐, and 12 were external links ๐, of those external links 3 were Primal Trek, and yes by far the majority of the content (simply the words and not the links) came from Primal Trek, removing Primal Trek here because itโs โspamโ would basically reduce the article back to the stub it was when I first found it, but obviously letโs not care about the encyclopedic content of Wikipedia and just insult users and punish them (and most importantly letโs punish the readers) for an unrelated insult to an uninvoled user concerning an issue on a completely different page, surely the admins of Wikipedia care more for the encyclopedia than they do for punishing people, yeah blocks are totally meant to be penal, everyone knows that the readers of the articles the punished person contributed the most to also deserve to have less content, itโs not like Wikipedia is just a hobby and people write about what theyโre interested in, and the onl reason people are here is to build an encyclopedia, nah letโs just assume that people are only here for self-promotion and money. ๐ | |
The first article I created on the subject of Chinese monetary history was actual about a Mongolian realm, it was the w:en:Yuan dynasty coinage article that only contains a single link to Primal Trek, at no time did I ever intent to write more articles in fact at w:en:User talk:DavidHartill I even requested him to make a Qing Dynasty coinage, I then looked at the Articles for Creation page only to find out that simply requesting a title doesn't make an article happen, you have to fully draft one first and since no article I have ever created in the 10 years I am here on Wikipedia (this includes w:en:West Frisian Wikipedia, and w:en:Dutch Wikipedia) has ever been deleted, and only once nominated by a user who harassed me for some years (the reason I started over with a new account before) which was then argued to be worthy to be on Wikipedia, I simply avoid going through extra non-sense as making an article for Wikipedia is as simple as clicking a red link. | |
I made 4 (four) articles very specifically to bridge the w:en:Ancient Chinese coinage and w:en:Yuan dynasty coinage articles filling a 300 year gap, I only made those articles because I donโt want Wikipedia to โbe incompleteโ and Primal Trek barely contained any information ๐ on the Khitans, Tanguts, Jurchens, and Mongols so never did I use Primal Trek more than once in ยพ of them, but since Primal Trek does have a lot on Chinese coinage from that period I did use it more there, but then again I found an essay by a history professor that had even more information ๐ so the majority of the content again can be ascribed to other sources. | |
At w:en:Qing dynasty coinage it is (as far as I can remembered) only linked 3 times in an article with over 100 references that I (as of August 20th, 2017) wholly wrote the content (excluding the mark-up) of myself, the fact that I didn't use Primal Trek that often here is very simple, Qing Dynasty coinage extends beyond cash coins and though I did in fact use Primal Trek as โthe skeletonโ of the article in its early concept the majority of the content is (as usual) from David Hartill's book ๐. | |
The only article where one could say that I mightโve โspammedโ Primal Trek was also the last English language article where I used to some excess, but if there is an authoritive source that (used to have/) has more infor | |
Note: Used to because as I had stated on my Wikimedia Commons user-page, โI made Primal Trek obsoleteโ, if anyone is interested in information ๐ on Chinese coins or Korean coins then Wikipedia has officially superseded Primal Trek by early July 2017 (and this is not an insult to either Gary Ashkenazy or Primal Trek), if you want images and illustrations then you could go to Primal Trek but as you can see in the above e-mail ๐ง I want him to โdonateโ those to Wikimedia Commons, also I tend to buy Chinese and Korean coins simply to upload them to Wikimedia Commons so maybe a couple of years from now I can say that Primal Trek is โ100% obsoleteโ. ๐ | |
โCross-wiki spamโ | |
As I already said above I only added 2 links to the Dutch Wikipedia site to Primal Trek and the article contained a dozen links, at no time did I add Primal Trek anywhere else and the ironic part is that even before I got blocked for Sockpuppetry I had stopped using Primal Trek on the English Wikipedia for a very simple reason, there was literally nothing left to link to, I had already used any โusefulโ link I could, and the rest of Primal Trek covers Chinese charms which I personally have no interest in writing about in general (let alone on Wikipedia), however I did add it to Dutch Wikipedia and as Beetstra can't understand Dutch (I think) he just saw the link and assumed that it was spam, heck I might be lucky that he isn't an administrator (Dutch: moderator) at Dutch Wikipedia because he mightโve deleted w:nl:Chinese kรจpรจngs as โa spam articleโ. | |
๐๐๐๐๐ โBookspamโ. ๐๐๐๐๐ | |
On another note ๐ of excessively adding a source I did however add David Hartillโs Cast Chinese coins, in fact while David Hartill has an actual COI with the book he added it to numerous articles, do you know who added it to even more articles? Youโve guessed it, me. Itโs not like David Hartill pays me ยฃ 100,- for every page I cite, the opposite is true I had to pay him money in order to use it (and rephrase it) on Wikipedia, but I did use the book on literally every article with a subject described in it (remember, there are many Chinese numismatic articles about pre-1912 coins), and to no extend did I ever expect to see my money ๐ด return to me, I only bought his book to share the knowledge with the world, isn't that what Jimbo Wales dreamed of when he made this website? | |
Of course there is no โBookspamโ project because a double standard exists that you can blacklist websites, but you canโt blacklist books ๐, and boy/girl am I happy that David Hartill hasn't been blacklisted. ๐ | |
Conclusions. | |
Under any other circumstances a rational human-being would've looked at the situation and see that in fact all I was doing was sourcing and verifying content but the Bermean Hunter and Beetstra assumed bad faith on a Sockpuppetry case clearly unrelated to any articles I have written or expanded and globally blacklisted a reliable source, in this instance Wikipedia itself has become collateral damage, the community has no say of what Beetstra does and doesn't consider spam and going around multiple wikis removing inline citations would be nothing short of vandalism if it were done by anyone else, imagine if any new user would come here and just randomly started removing references from articles we would immediately revert them simply on the fact that it hurts the encyclopedia and we all know it. The main reason I was even protesting my lock is simply because this slanderous accusation of COI upon my person has hurt the month of hard work and the work of other editors, I never did anything to harm the article content of Wikipedia, Beetstra did when he started removing references from articles I have never edited on Serbian Wikipedia. | |
My conclusions on WikiProject Spam. | |
Well let me first explain my motivations behind my persistent socking before I will address the WikiProject Spam, this serves only for a (possible) comparison of motivation, when Commons admin Daphne Lantier/INeverCry found my sockpuppets at all times did they delete the user- and talk-pages (even if those didn't contain any disruptive texts), and then deleted any image uploaded by them as โCopyright violationsโ, also later deleting some categories I had created after removing those categories from images and then claiming โempty categoryโ, in fact the whole reason INeverCry was discovered to be a sockpuppeteer was because they went looking for old unused accounts, and then delete any personal pictures ๐ท of them citing โabandoned accountโ regardless of the reasons that user had left Wikipedia, nor is there a rule or guideline on Wikimedia Commons that states that personal pictures ๐ท of people must be deleted after they have become inactive, imagine if a person had died, they only had digital pictures of themselves, their survivors โcleanedโ all their disks, and no other picture ๐ท of that person exists other than the one in Commons, well โthough luckโ according to INeverCry. In fact one of the main reasons I appealed my global lock ๐ is because this (ab)user just deleted my Commons user page citing โlocked accountโ (again, there are no rules or policies regarding this) and after they were de-sysopped they bragged about almost getting half a million admin actions, which makes me suspect that all the above mentioned actions were purely motivated to get an arbitrary number of admin actions rather than an actual interest for Wikimedia Commons, who would benefit from educational images being deleted? Who would benefit from useful categories being deleted? Who would benefit from deleting user pages and pictures of inactive/blocked users? Well, 1) not the users of these services, 2) not the readers, and 3) not the website itself, all it does it increase a number without value by removing things that do have value. | |
Now the reason I cite the above example is very simple, this admin has been doing it for years, how many useful images have been incorrectly deleted as โcopyright violationsโ because some admin either wanted to stack up their admin stats or assumed that anything uploaded by a blocked must be deleted (from an e-mail ๐ง exchange with a Commons admin the man claimed that images by blocked users at all times need to be deleted even if they are free, donated, and used on Wikipedia because โthe Foundation should not host images by users who ignore the rulesโ), the community never decided on any of these actions, and other admins never review them because there are millions of users and only hundreds or thousands of admins, on paper admins are accountable for their actions but in reality this is rarely true. | |
Update: Credit where credit is due the admin I complained about looked at the situation and undeleted the category deleted by Daphne Socktier, despite his aggressive e-mails towards me he did take an objective look at the situation and did the right thing for Wikimedia Commons. | |
Which brings me to WikiProject Spam, how many good and useful sources have been deleted because the COIBot had a false positive? Let's be honest if something is blacklisted most users will probably assume that it is so because the source was deemed unreliable, or maybe because the website itself was questionable, if I found out something was blacklisted I didn't go to request its removal because โit must be blacklisted for a reason, right?โ who actually checks what and where things get deleted, on Wikipedia the general rule is that if content is unsourced that it should not be on Wikipedia, if a previously commonly used source suddenly becomes โspamโ then how much information should be deleted? Well, simply put the members of this project don't care, they never actually look at the content or where it gets linked to, they only look at how much it gets linked, and by whom it gets linked, is it just a good faith contributor who happens to read this website more than others? Well, thatโs a question they never ask, is it an obscure but otherwise quite resourceful website for a niche subject? Again, they simply don't care, their definition of โspamโ has nothing to do with how or if it would benefit Wikipedia, they simply donโt care about the content. | |
Now ask yourself this question, imagine if you like me are just someone who likes a subject, you know that thereโs lots of information on this subject on the internet but all the Wikipedia articles are just unsourced stubsโฆ You know this one website that has lots of information on the subject and it doesn't matter what website that is, but only 4 or 5 other people used it very sparsely, how often can you use a source to expand Wikipediaโs content with it, 10 times? 20 times? 30 times? 40 times? The answer is that Itโs simply not your choice to decide, others in bad faith will decide this for you, they donโt want those articles to expand, they don't want you here, it doesn't matter if you use lots of other references, you just used that one website โtoo muchโ and they don't care that it to expand or source content, in their minds you are now โa spammerโ, all the work you did out of the goodness of your heart is seen as โspamlinkingโ and all the content you added may get deleted not because it's wrong, not because it doesn't benefit either Wikipedia or its readers, but because someone else decided for you that your content is โspamโ. An example below is exactly how Wikipedia looks like if we do not criticise their actions: | |
What I like Wikipedia to look like, Vs. how Beetstra wants Wikipedia to look like. | |
The problem really lies with how inefficient the COIBot is designed. | |
The COIBot only shows who added the link where, it doesn't show Diffโs, I think that the human checking where the links were added should see the full edit to know if it were just a link being added, a link replacing another link (a common form of spamming), or a link being added with content, the COIBot simply doesn't discriminate and if you add a whole paragraph of educational content and properly source it someone reviewing the bot might delete the reference you used, this is the antithesis of verifiability. | |
If you still believe that Iโm a spammer... ๐คจ | |
The COIBot simply had a false positive because I'm passionate about expanding Chinese numismatic articles, nothing more and if anyone is daring to make a claim that I am here to spam then please leave a message at at my talk page so I can cuss at you. ๐ก๐คฌ | |
Sent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ. | |
Addendum (added on September 2nd, 2017). | |
How to describe the tactics used against me. | |
w:en:Wikipedia:POV railroad | |
โUnsubstantiated accusations of canvassing or conflict of interest, labeling an editor as a point-of-view pusher, or accusing them of being a sock puppet or meat puppet of a banned user are common false narratives.โ | |
1) Well, the claim that I have a WP:COI certainly falls under this, no evidence just accusations, never was an objective look at any of my edits been exercised, they were simply retroactively seen as โadding spamlinksโ. | |
2) Beetstra concluded that Javierfv1212, Dwarwinci, and Neboysha87 were all my sockpuppets, not based on any evidence but since they used the same reference I used they must sockpuppets because no-one else in the world ๐บ would ever use this โspam-siteโ. | |
POV railroading also occurs on a one-to-one basis and may involve a condescending, patronizing, sarcastic and insulting tone.โ | |
3) Obviously the above question by Beetstra can be seen as this, the fact that at no point he was even considering the fact that his false WP:BADFAITH narrative was wrong and only replied in sarcastic insults proves that he is not here to build an encyclopedia. | |
Addendum (added September 2nd, 2017). The many issues with the โspam-fightingโ botsโ | |
XLinkBot | |
XLinkBot has got to be one of the worst designed bots on Wikipedia, it operates completely on bad faith and even if it were designed to fight โspamโ it does a pretty lousy job at it. First of all the way it reverts is completely unrelated to the context of the edits it reverts, it simply targets a user and then undoes all of their revisions on a page where they have inserted a blacklisted link, this can be quite evident in my first encounter with Beetstra where the XLinkBot indiscriminately removed numerous sources, content additions, and illustrative images (as can be seen here) not because any of my edits were bad but simply because I had inserted what Beetstra defines as โa spamlinkโ, for context all the โsourcesโ cited in the article before I added more appropriate references are links to a random auction site, how accurate is the information from those auction sites? Well, I donโt know because 75% of the coins in those auctions were sold when I began with my edits in July 2017 there at Ming dynasty coinage and those bare-link โreferencesโ were added years ago. The trustworthiness of a source or it's value to Wikipedia isn't something Beetstra or the XLinkBot ever look at, the context as to how and why links were added are also completely ignored. | |
As a scenario, imagine a new inexperienced editor finds a stub about his/her favourite subject, this new editor knows a dozen websites about this subject and starts expanding the stub into a great educational resource that any reader would appreciate... Oops, the new editor added a source that was blacklisted and all of their edits have no been reverted, imagine the impression this would give to that user, also a(n automated) message has been left on their talk page โYou are a spammer, if you continue to do edits like that you will be blocked from editingโ, this would also give them the impression that all of their edits were bad while in reality the link they added could've been blacklisted for literally any reason. | |
โBut, heyโฆโ you might be saying, โthatโs just a minor risk in combating the prevalent issue of spammers, right?โ well, no that brings us to another issue with the botโฆ it simply doesn't work, as of Semptember 2nd, 2017 Beetstra proudly proclaimed that he โremoved any reference of Primal Trek from Wikipediaโ and he personally removed many links claiming โXWiki spamโ from other wiki'sโฆ of all the links he addedโฆ only one (1) was actually added by me (and you've guessed it, a reference), so I can only assume that he programmed the XLinkBot to revert my edits and remove a total ofโฆ zero (0) links, Iโm not even joking, all the links in English Wikipedia placed by โI, the master-spammer, the spam-master, Spammy McSpammington, Spam McSpamz, the Spamming Spamsterโ are sill there (as of writing this), this is good news for Wikipedia as an encyclopedia, but bad news for BadFaithBotโฆ I mean XLinkBot, the moment any other editor makes literally any edit the XLinkBot simply doesn't function, so how can mass-spammers circumvent the XLinkBot? Very simple, just add the spam-links as an IP/named-user, then sign-in/-out and make a few minor edits, and thereโs absolutely nothing the XLinkBot can do against this, it has to be one of the easiest bots to game, and it is not uncommon for Wikipedia itself to become collateral damage of its antics, so basically we have a bot that removed educational content but no spamโฆ | |
I am not calling for this bot to be out right abolished, I think that the โExternal Linksโ sections of articles should be patrolled to some extend but in the end a human (who actually objectively looks at the link-additions) should judge whether or not an edit or a series of edits harm or help Wikipedia, โa war against linksโ is a war against verifiability which is more harmful than helpful, which brings me to a bot designed with the same level of neglect and bad faithโฆ | |
COIBot | |
COIBot has got to be thought out by someone who clearly doesn't understand how Wikipedia works, its tasks seem to be based on bad faith and COI-paranoia, and not on any practical means to build an encyclopedia, so what is my issue with COIBot? Well, very simply it doesn't actually look at edits, no I'm serious it just lists links, it doesn't care where the links link to, how the links were added, or why the links were added, it just looks at who adds what link (not a source, reference, or external link, just the link to a website) and how much that person adds that link. The assumption before a single person has even looked at the edits is of bad faith, the COIBot doesn't ever show Diffโs which are great for context it only shows links additions. | |
Here is how the WikiProject Spam thinks โThese links were added by/used by a spammer, hence they need to be removedโ, this also includes links that people completely unrelated to โthe spammerโ added (just think of the people other than myself that added Primal Trek), and also notes that Beetstra and others consciously delete references, if a spammer would let's say replace an existing source with their website reverting that would be the better choice, if a spammer excessively adds links to the โExternal Linksโ section of every article even vaguely related to that it could be obviously a conflict of interest (case in point would be Sema from Art-Hanoi who did this, but as I added the link ๐ probably more than he did the COIBot might see me as โthe spammerโ rather than the owner even though I mostly used it as a reference). The COIBot should be updated to include diffโs for context, even if someone has a conflict of interest if their edits still help build an encyclopedia then why remove it? Remove them from the โExternal Linksโ sections sure, but why as references if the website actually properly references the added content? Well, this is another way how โthe war on spamโ basically became โthe war on Wikipediaโ but by people who sincerely believe that theyโre protecting the thing theyโre destroying. (See, unlike them I hold the moral high ground and assume good faith) | |
Whatโs even worse is that for us mobile-users there simply are no warnings, when I tried to launch the article w:en:Yuan dynasty coinage I couldn't, on my mobile browser I got an error message that only read โError, couldn't save pageโ with no explanation given, when I was forced to switch to my โDesktop viewโ I got a message that China Guide or something was blacklisted, now imagine if Beetstraโs idea of indefinitely blocking anyone who tries to add a blacklisted link in any way with no talk page access, imagine the huge collateral damage this would have on not just new- and mobile-users but on Wikipedia itself, the Wikipedia definition of โspamlinksโ isn't based on the source itself (the โtargetโ website) but on an earlier bad faith assumption regarding the links, I have absolutely no idea that that China Travel or China Guide or whatever website was blacklisted or even why it was blacklisted, if I pressed save twice with this idea I could've been blocked on the bogus assumption that I'm a spammer, and at the time I was unaware where or how one could remove links from the blacklist, I can only assume that many others may have also run into this problem and very few people actually know where the SpamBlacklist is so blocking anyone before they could save an edit because of โa bad linkโ (what a handful of people deemed โbadโ) basically shows that the current โanti-spam cultureโ is very harmful, I do not comment on the actual spammers but indiscriminately combatting โlinksโ while not evaluating the edits is a bane on the idea of building an encyclopedia. | |
Drafted from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ. | |
Sent ๐ฉ from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ. | |
Sent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ. |
Dutch shops and stores. ๐ฌ
Currently I am busy uploading pictures of Dutch shops and stores that don't have an image on Dutch Wikipedia, though many articles exist it's not uncommon for there to be no image (sometimes other than the logo), for that reason I have a "to-do list ๐" of Dutch shops with Wikipedia articles that lack an image. Personally what I find the saddest about the lack of images in these categories is that many supermarkets and shops that no longer exist don't have a single image on Commons, as an encyclopedia Wikipedia would greatly benefit from having illustrative images added to these articles as the saying goes "a picture ๐ท says a thousand words" which I admittedly hated as a saying for most of my life but recently have seen the value of, you can describe a store in detail but still would fail to illustrate it as adequately as with an image.
Of course I do not limit my uploads to those shops and stores but I think that those currently (as of October 3rd, 2017) as some stores have been announced to close, or rebrand and if we do not document them now we might never do so, this doesn't mean that I have a COI with them, if anything improving Wikipedia for the sake of improving Wikipedia and Wikimedia projects should be seen as the opposite of "advertising" but unfortunately a culture of "spamophobia" that hurts building the encyclopedia is more prevalent than a culture of improving Wikipedia itself, of course I would never promote the subjects of my photography, in fact I have often had bad experiences with many of them, but I think that their educational value exceeds my grudges towards many of them, though this doesn't mean that I will photograph every store I see, I look for them first on Dutch Wikipedia before I take the picture ๐ท and I'm a lot more passionate about numismatics than I am about shops and stores. ๐
What I hope some of my photographs might accomplish in the future.
For future Belgologists. ๐ง |
I hope ๐ค๐ป that in the future ๐ฎ people who will study the culture of the Kingdom of the Netherlands ๐ (โBelgologistsโ or maybe โBatavologistsโ?) will have enough information โน on the current society of the Netherlands to paint a good picture of every detail of current (as of writing this) Dutch society. ๐ง It would blow your mind how little pictures ๐ท there currently are of many daily things (including shops ๐คซ) in the Netherlands. ๐คฏ Honestly the fact that you could see a few dozen pictures of the same work of art or tourist spot is laughable ๐คญ while the lack of pictures of stores that have their own Wikipedia articles and donโt have a picture is sad. ๐คช๐คฌ But donโt worry, where I see an issue I will try to provide a solution and future... Ehhh.. โBelgologistsโ donโt have to worry. ๐ง |
Sent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ. --Donald Trung (Talk ๐ฌ) ("The Chinese Coin Troll" ๐ฟ) (Articles ๐) 10:18, 31 October 2017 (UTC) ๐คจ |
Yay, new Emojiโs... (for Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile ๐ฑ). ๐ง๐ป๐ง๐ป๐ง๐ป๐ง๐ป๐ง๐ป๐ง๐ป๐คฑ๐ป๐คฐ๐ป๐ง๐ป๐ง๐ป๐๐ป ๐งค๐งฅ๐งฃ๐๐๐ท๐ ๐๐๐๐ฟโโจโโฐโฑโฒ๐ฐ ๐ฅจ๐ฅ๐ง๐ฅ๐๐ญ๐ฑ ๐ฅก๐ฅซ๐ฅ๐ฅ๐ฏ๐ฎ ๐ฅช๐ฅ๐ฅง๐ญ๐ซ๐ฏ๐ผ ๐ฅข๐ฅค๐ฅฅ๐ฅ๐ฅ๐ถ ๐ฅ๐ฐ ๐ฅ๐ฑ๐ต๐ด๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ธ๐ณโ๐๐ง๐ฅ๐จโฝ๐๐ฆ๐๐๐๐โฑโโโก๐ฏ๐โโ๐ณ๐นโขโฃ๐ฎ๐ซ๐ท๐ญ๐๐๐ฏ๐ณ๐ฑ๐โโ๐ต๐ตโผ๐ฏ๐ฏ๐ตโ๐ธ๐ |
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